anybody in URS remove any DSB?

Dag- I'm very glad you asked. Yes, the results of my old DSB removal are very apparent and all positive. Unfortunately I must always retain some type of shallow sandbed for my big sand dwelling anemones and Leopard Wrasses.
 
I've had this blue Acro since '96 or '97 and it's now beginning to return to it's former glory.
I'm still running Rowa and siphoning up DSB crud.
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It's difficult to guesstimate the amount of sand (and poop) left because there are some piles of it under the rockwork, John.
I'm sure the areas under the rocks are really toxic.
I recently blew some crud out from beneath the rocks and went downstairs to crank up my skimmer to max height/wet skimmate.
When I returned to the basement 15 minutes later, (where the skimmer is located), I almost gagged on the really rotten smelling skimmate it was pulling out.
 
I strongly think that the reason for my green water in my tank is from the sand that i go from loudz. my question is could i have a little bit of sand in there and not have to worry about this problem from coming? is there a way of acually cleaning the sand for reuse? and if i went with just a shallow bed of cc it have a nice visual effect only would the tend to have the same problems?
 
scaz said:
I strongly think that the reason for my green water in my tank is from the sand that i go from loudz. my question is could i have a little bit of sand in there and not have to worry about this problem from coming? is there a way of acually cleaning the sand for reuse? and if i went with just a shallow bed of cc it have a nice visual effect only would the tend to have the same problems?
If you think the sand is the problem, why don't you experiment and remove it?
Sand is cheap. If you remove it, why bother washing it for re-use? Just get new sand... or go BB.
 
To cap this thread, after the DSB was removed everything (especially SPS) recovered nicely and the aquarium went on to become RC's TOTM in the April 2006 issue of 'Reefkeeping Online Magazine'.
I like happy endings. :)

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You know I often wonder if we should be replacing sand in SSB. Ever though there isnt the depth to gather nutrients there still is space. Might be worth looking into.

Scott
 
Gary
Hopefully you have tried a pint or two since. It's nice to drop in from time to time. I miss some of the old timers like Playfair, Stoli, and Doug and RC is just not the same without them. Although I think this is my 4th year I am still a newbie compared to you. Keep up the good work.

BD
 
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Gary,
Based on your experience, how long should it take me to do my 55gal with about a 3-4" DSB?
I just want to gauge the rate of removal correctly.
Also, did you replace any sand before all the old was removed or wait until it was all out?

and BTW, a great thread....a Classic I dare say!!!

Thanks
Bryan
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8773652#post8773652 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bdavis
Gary
Hopefully you have tried a pint or two since. It's nice to drop in from time to time. I miss some of the old timers like Playfair, Stoli, and Doug and RC is just not the same without them. Although I think this is my 4th year I am still a newbie compared to you. Keep up the good work.BD
Thanks. I miss the good 'ol days, too. I think old timers in the hobby get tired of the same old questions and debates and avoid the board. I haven't had Guinness before or after that Buffalo meet. For a guy like me (family man with basically no life) it was something I'll remember the rest of my days.

Bryan- I would go slow removing. Don't replace any sand until you've cleaned the bottom of your aquarium as good as you possibly can.

Scott- SSB's are probably the highest maintenance option. They don't denitrify yet they still have all the drawbacks of a DSB.
I keep my current SSB well stirred to try and avoid the buildup of any crud.
 
Mr Playfair has picked up some new expensive hobbies like flying model helicopters these days but he still has his tank running.
 
Holy 6 years later!! I just read through the thread! How do you like not having a DSB compared to having one?
long story short and in simple terms:
when I started reefkeeping I had a SSB for several years in more than one reef aquarium. This was before I joined RC. Several years after joing RC I increased my sandbed's depth. I had good results for several years. After 5 years or so the DSB got loaded with poop (grey fecal matter resembles dust) and it was obvious the environmental conditions for growing Acropora had worsened. At the time I didn't know why corals didn't thrive like they did initially. Back then this was often referred to as 'old tank syndrome'.
This is about the same time PO4's detrimental effect on certain corals started to become well known. I now run BB/SSB and it's the best choice for the animals I keep in my reef aquarium. Thanks for asking!
 
A 6 year old bump, wow.
I've been throwing sand around and having it thrown at me for the last several years on several threads . Some sand people love their dsbs and the Dr . Shimek isms and fight for them zealously if illogically . Some still carry the" must have hypoxic or anoxic areas,euphemistically called anerobic zones" on to a spirited fight for plennums or remote sand buckets too. None of it makes any sense once an understanding of how the denitrifying bacteria work in the presence of oxygen and then nitrate and create their own "anaerobic zones" and the nutrients they need to thrive( organic carbnon, nitrogen and phospahorous), as well as the dynamics of water flow , advection, and the overall weakness of diffusion in moving nutrients in a dsb. Thereis little in teh dsb dialogue about these . The risks of anoxia and sulfate reducing bacterial activity are all but ignored by the dsb folks too. Fortunately, much of the time the deep sand is just sterile at least for some years since not much to sustan in the bacteria gets down there.
I started with the 4 inch plus deal,in my 90 gallon. Held on to it for 7 year anddefended it for teh first 4 . Afterall, folks like Dr. Shimek, and Anthony Calfo wouldn't steer me in the wrong direction ,would they?
As I added tanks to the system I used shallow beds (about an inch ; I like the beachy look. The surface area addition for the benthic denitrifiers is a plus too ,imo). Still I didn't remove the old dsbin teh 90. Figured if the dsb in the 90 was causing trouble, dilution would help as the system grew form 90 to 600 gallons. Still got nitrate problems though and some unfathomable coral issues, the dilution probably prevented an all out crash.
Once I understood that you didn't need depth ,just surface areas for denitrifing bacteria for dentirfication , a dsb seemed more trouble than it was worth.

Then came the real worries.
Once
i a learned a little about organics and metals and other stuff that build up and might release as the bed ages and localized ph shifts occur in the bed and anoxic anoxic areas form , my concern became more urgent.
Sure you can keep dsbs with new live sand replenishment, adding beneficial sand fauna ,whatever that is exactly , choosing only the right animals for your tank so as not to disturb the bed and on and on and on and on, but ,you wind up keeping a sand bed and telling folks that have trouble with them that they are doing something wrong like having sea cucumber or not having a seacucumber, or blowing off the top or not blowing off the top , orteh right or wrong kind of worms and snails .It is endless. I'd rather keep a reef tank.

Finally sucked most of it out over a period of several weeks. Tried a remote dsb,a whopping 7 inches deep; it did next to nothing for nitrates. Tanks improved once the old sand was depleted in the 90 gallon tank.


I do keep a few deep pools of sand 3 to 5 inches deep in some of the tanks for wrasses and the pistol shrimp which btw according to some would be poor choices for a dsb. So, I'm left to wonder why would anyone wan't one.
 
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