Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[Wazzel]

Why do people think continue to think that general purpose agendas, phaseout plans or regulations have anything to do with a hobby? Nobody is using XM, Radium, Phoneix, Hamilton or Ushio bulbs anywhere but the aquarium industry and there is enough demand to make them. Same with the T5 bulbs. It won't matter what a factory does as long as the demand for MH is there from the hobbies that want them... and don't discount hydroponics that still use tons of HPS and MH. There are no rules, regulations or phaseout dates for specialty bulb use.

It is a matter of manufacturing. I do not know the ins and outs of the lighting business, but if hobby lamps are made in the same factory that residential and commercial lamps are made the chance of them discontinuing a relatively low volume product after the others are gone is high. If they are made in a special factory then the chance of them being continued is higher as long as they are profitable to the company. Without knowing for sure I suspect the aquarium lamps are made in the same facilities industrial ones are made. If the volume does not justify keeping the facility open, it will close.

Having said all that the lamps are probably all made in China and the world wide demand will matter more than a single country. Unless several major countries ban incandesant lamps the hobby lamps are probably safe.

 

[Johnseye]

It seems that you do not understand that a generator is more efficient and uses less fuel as the electrical demand on it decreases, this is true for even an appropriately sized generator. Reducing the load with more efficient lighting not only saves fuel but will allow more consistent electricity from the generator as the generator doesn't have to work as hard.

Though it is off topic, it is something people should know.

I have a generator. It is using NG and was appropriately sized for the load of what it's intended to support.
The biggest impact to a generator is the appliances simultaneously run. Lights to a lesser extent. The key is simultaneous use of electricity in a power outage.

Please move back to topic or we can create a new one for generators which could be a good discussion .

 

[sirreal63]

Ok, so you understand that reducing the total electrical load is wise, then wasn't your question to Joe irrelevant? Lights do add to the total electrical load, reducing the wattage in one area helps reduce the load to the generator from other devices that have a high initial demand. FWIW, the biggest impact to a gen is not continuous wattage, (the rpm of the device turning the gen handles that and is adjusted accordingly) it is high demand short time wattages like starting a compressor or other motor where the engine has to adjust rapidly to handle the sudden demand for power.

There have been numerous threads on backup power over the years, but like most threads they lose relevance after a while when people stop posting to them. This one however should remain about people dumping their LEDs and returning back to traditional lighting.

 

[Johnseye]

Ok, so you understand that reducing the total electrical load is wise, then wasn't your question to Joe irrelevant? .

Not irrelevant. Just wondering why one would move to LEDs in a home for generator capacity vs. ROI on an electric bill.

I get all the watts add up. Joe didn't do anything wrong. No real question there if you're looking to reduce overall load to the generator. One could also get a more efficient washing machine or furnace. I didn't mean to sound picky so apologies if it was taken that way.

 

[spsfragur]

Don't mean to discourage anyone from dumping their leds...but many of you should check out Sanjay Joshi's facebook page...thats right, the metal halide expert, running all radions...even caught me off guard!

Is ecotech paying him?? :spin2:

However, in all seriousness, his growth and coloration is stunning....the key? Must be water quality as in the picture comments he states he runs his radions FULL BLAST for several hours a day....

why isn't he turning down his whites? seems this is the trend that the whites are bad for sps coloration...lol, he actually doesn't run his blues as much...

I think all the failure with leds has been related to lack of full spectrum fixtures and water quality, perhaps coverage too....MH is easy though, just plug in and your done! oh and throw on a fan.

 

[DavidinGA]

Don't mean to discourage anyone from dumping their leds...but many of you should check out Sanjay Joshi's facebook page...thats right, the metal halide expert, running all radions...even caught me off guard!

Is ecotech paying him?? :spin2:

However, in all seriousness, his growth and coloration is stunning....the key? Must be water quality as in the picture comments he states he runs his radions FULL BLAST for several hours a day....

why isn't he turning down his whites? seems this is the trend that the whites are bad for sps coloration...lol, he actually doesn't run his blues as much...

I think all the failure with leds has been related to lack of full spectrum fixtures and water quality, perhaps coverage too....MH is easy though, just plug in and your done! oh and throw on a fan.

Inside story is he is now running MORE watts in leds than he was with MH to get the same results.
He still doesn't sound like he is super excited to be running leds at all either...

 

[spsfragur]

Inside story is he is now running MORE watts in leds than he was with MH to get the same results.
He still doesn't sound like he is super excited to be running leds at all either...

so really only benefit, is maybe less heat? forget the power savings...

 

[jda]

His speech at MACNA was hardly a ringing endorsement for LED. He would not say a word about color (the silence tells you all that you need to know). Said that there is no efficiency. Also said that growth was less under LED.

Speaking to him off the podium, and off the record, had a handful of local reefers started buying T5 and MH.

 

[spsfragur]

His speech at MACNA was hardly a ringing endorsement for LED. He would not say a word about color (the silence tells you all that you need to know). Said that there is no efficiency. Also said that growth was less under LED.

Speaking to him off the podium, and off the record, had a handful of local reefers start buying T5 and MH.

the coloring of his coral on his latest shots from his facebook page leave me in silence...

he mentioned growth is 75% of what a lower kelvin MH would give....

sounds like you need a lot of units though for coverage

 

[DavidinGA]

so really only benefit, is maybe less heat? forget the power savings...

Ya. The only real reason to switch to leds has always been the energy savings (imo) and without that why switch?

 

[d2mini]

I just looked at his Facebook page.
Unless you are talking about the colorful glass in his cover image I'm not all that impressed. The Psammacora is really hard to make dull. It's pretty much that vibrant green under any lighting. Mine looks the exact same under mh as it did under led. The others look ok. The blues are nice. Hopefully they stay blue.

 

[jda]

He did not appear impressed and he knows the before and after as well as anybody. I think that it would be better if he would speak himself, but he would not. I have seen much better, as well, but photos on the interwebs are very rarely indicative of anything.

Another possible benefit is the ability to play-with and tweak the things. While this might be wrought with peril to most reefers, it might be fun for some.

 

[am.gee]

Ya. The only real reason to switch to leds has always been the energy savings (imo) and without that why switch?

To make some real time weather effects believe me, it is really enjoying to watch at the tank with tose lighting effects.
i never go back to mh...

 

[power boat jim]

If you are not getting some energy saving switching from MH to LED there might be a problem. I have not run into anyone who needs to match LED watt for watt with MH. I replaced 1200 watts of MH with about 500 peak watts of LED. Im sure everyones energy consumption or savings is different but I cant see a zero savings in the switch being the norm.

The amount of light produced per watt of energy used for each set of lights makes an energy savings with LEDS nearly a given.

 

[Fredfish]

Hey Jim. How is your tank doing? Has the colour continued to hold on your corals?

 

[d2mini]

If you are not getting some energy saving switching from MH to LED there might be a problem. I have not run into anyone who needs to match LED watt for watt with MH. I replaced 1200 watts of MH with about 500 peak watts of LED. Im sure everyones energy consumption or savings is different but I cant see a zero savings in the switch being the norm.

The amount of light produced per watt of energy used for each set of lights makes an energy savings with LEDS nearly a given.

Jim, this is an interesting discussion because I think we are going to see a change in the recommended amount of LEDs over a tank. Just as an example, I had the recommended amount of 4 Radions over my 200g tank. But if money was no object and I was doing it again, I would double it. At least. You have all that power directly under the puck, and then the light drops off SHARPLY. So the light coverage ends up being so uneven across the tank, contributing to many of the problems we see people complaining about. Now if I did double it, I might be able to reduce power a little bit, but not much if the coral that were previously directly under the pucks where liking all that light. And not many people run their LEDs at 100% so you can't go by max power consumption if that's the case, plus all the time that you spend ramping up and down. But my point is that I think we are going to find out that we need to utilize more power for LED than we originally thought. Probably still less, but the gap will lessen.

 

[power boat jim]

Hey Jim. How is your tank doing? Has the colour continued to hold on your corals?

Yes it is doing fine, color is as good or better then ever. It is recovering a bit as I had a big alk bounce and burned a couple things.

The LED vs MH watt per unit discussion is interesting as I have removed 2 of the sols and I am now down to just 4. I am using two Buildmyled full spectrum strips on the front and back of the tank. They are on only as the AIs ramp up and down. I may remove a third AI or maybe not since the strawberry shortcake is doing so well under the spot that still has 2 AIs above it and it took a long time to get that coral to color up ( Im afraid to mess with that coral!!)

Either way I am using the least amount of watts over this tank I ever have and results so far are very good.

D2mini, what you mentioned about the poor LED spread seems to be a problem, I have my lights way higher then most people for just that reason. It seems though AI sol LEDS will work just fine being 16 or so inches above the water where the spread is better. I can also only speak for the units I use. Seems LEDs can vary greatly in spread depending on the optics used. My buildmyled lights are about 9 in high and light 2/3 of the width of the tank each from that height.

 

[ptreef]

I went from 2 x 250w MH & 4 54w t-5 (hamilton cebeu sun) over frag tank to 2 full spectrum 160w fixtures that I ramp to a max of about 80*. Have them 18" off water for spread 60x30 x 12 tank. These are a somewhat custom layout of the reefbreeders photon 24

I say i'd avg less than 130w use over and 10 hrs period vs the ~ 450w avg for 10 hrs on the MH's. (Kill a watt measured) Over 40 different SPS, 10 zoas, 5 lps and 5 softies, I see pretty much all same color, few better, few not better. Growth i'd say is a little slower. LED's swapped 8 months ago now.

DT still has 2 400w MH's & 4 80w t-5 (hamilton cebe sun fixture)that I can continue to compare colors and growth as this is a tied system. 66x36x24

 

[DavidinGA]

If you are not getting some energy saving switching from MH to LED there might be a problem. I have not run into anyone who needs to match LED watt for watt with MH. I replaced 1200 watts of MH with about 500 peak watts of LED. Im sure everyones energy consumption or savings is different but I cant see a zero savings in the switch being the norm.

The amount of light produced per watt of energy used for each set of lights makes an energy savings with LEDS nearly a given.

Go tell that to Sanjay Joshi; he has better reef cred's than any of us when it comes to lighting and he's pushing ridiculous led watts to match his old mh setup and still not as happy....

 

[power boat jim]

Go tell that to Sanjay Joshi; he has better reef cred's than any of us when it comes to lighting and he's pushing ridiculous led watts to match his old mh setup and still not as happy....

Is there a hypothesis behind his thought that one needs to use gigawatts of LEDs to maintain coral or is he just struggling to use LEDs like a whole bunch of other people?