Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

Well sorry guys, seems nobody wants to answer the one single question I have.

I know you just don't want to say the truth about it.

But I think I've stayed long enough, group mentalities are what's wrong with the hobby, not led's.

Or how about scratch every single thing I've said, let's pretend I just entered the conversation!

Hey guys! I see metal halides and t5's are being compared to led's.
How is it possible that led's can grow some of the spectacular tanks I've seen on the internet that rival metal halides and t5's if led's don't work?

*edit
On second thought, whatever lol...

You guys want to rant and rave like you're experts on the areas of lighting, but you can't answer my one simple question. You've avoided it for several pages.

For those who are actually curious about the differences, I hope there's no hard feelings.
The others who are talking out their wazoo and obviously biased, well, good luck with your tanks, it's about the creatures after all and not what you prefer for lighting. I know metal halides and t5's work just fine, but please don't discount everyone so rudely that shows an interest in newer technologies that are progressing quite nicely. That's just bigotry. :)
 
doctorwhoreefer said:
Well sorry guys, seems nobody wants to answer the one single question I have.

I know you just don't want to say the truth about it.

But I think I've stayed long enough, group mentalities are what's wrong with the hobby, not led's.

Or how about scratch every single thing I've said, let's pretend I just entered the conversation!

Hey guys! I see metal halides and t5's are being compared to led's.
How is it possible that led's can grow some of the spectacular tanks I've seen on the internet that rival metal halides and t5's if led's don't work?
Click to expand...


Now you're actually being funny. You just simply ignore my posts to see if you can get me riled up. Now that's funny.

My apologies to all for feeding the troll. :lolspin:
 
Because you don't have the breath and depth of experience to know what you are looking at and know that there is better. It is as simple as that.

If you had such experience, you would never argue that LED are on the same level. However, you might still want to use them for other reasons like heat (if you live somewhere warm), gadgetry or whatever.

Since you won't accept that you are not on the same level as the people trying to answer you, is appears like you are not being answered. Human psych 101.
 
I am on the verge of dumping my high end LEDs after a year for all the stated reasons. Saving electricity at the cost of coral health is not worth it and believe me I have tried everything but my corals just are not thriving.
 
Alright guys, I'll keep asking:

If a led fixture has IDENTICAL spectral output as a mh, other than intensities/lux/par/etc, what is the difference that makes metal halide a "higher quality light"?

Don't really care what you have to say with your opinions and personal preferences, but if you're going to take it to the extreme you are, I think I have my answer and so does anyone else who can see things logically.

This is the one question none of you can answer evidently. Oh sure, you can avoid it, but not answer it.
This is quite comical because I don't consider myself a lighting expert, but you're all playing verbal gymnastics avoiding it.

I mean really, if I'm wrong, and there's something in metal halides and the way they give off light, please inform me!
Am I missing something entirely? Is there extra photonic output or such that doesn't fall under the measurements of kelvin or intensities such as par/lux? lol..
 
Last edited:
I personally think the answer gets back to the universe of experienced users who have actually kept their LED's/tanks stable over a long stretch of time. There just isn't that big of a population yet to point to, which makes it too easy to become a detractor.

LED's have been their own worst enemy, with upgrades fast on the heels of other upgrades and the ever-increasing amount of adjustability, lending itself to making changes far too quickly.

It would be like having a MH with an adjustable spectrum and changing that spectrum on a weekly basis, for too early to tell if it has really had any impact, what that impact might be and what it ultimately will be.
 
doctorwhoreefer said:
Well sorry guys, seems nobody wants to answer the one single question I have.

I know you just don't want to say the truth about it.

But I think I've stayed long enough, group mentalities are what's wrong with the hobby, not led's.

Or how about scratch every single thing I've said, let's pretend I just entered the conversation!

Hey guys! I see metal halides and t5's are being compared to led's.
How is it possible that led's can grow some of the spectacular tanks I've seen on the internet that rival metal halides and t5's if led's don't work?
Click to expand...


People answered your question. My answer is even with the exact same spectrum the corals under LED will only look good on top due to shadowing. I believe that, I said that. Look at the pictures of corals under MH, the frontal shots. You cannot get that with LED unless you have pucks spread out all over the tank to simulate the reflected light.

If you do that you are using more wattage and paying more money than you ever would with a MH or T5 setup. Reflection is cheap and it WORKS.

Think of actors on a stage with a row of spotlights overhead. It's not going to look as good as if spotlights were spread out in front and behind the actors as well.

So now let's go back to spectrum. The problem with LED right now is the lack of a narrow green spike to bring up perceived brightness (what our eyes are most sensitive too). When My LED lights had the correct PAR measured with a PAR meter it looked dim to my eyes, when I cranked up the brightness I ended up with faded colors.

These pictures shows how well a Maxspect Razor, one of the cheaper LED fixtures, can color up the top of a few acros. These corals looked drab from the front due to the sharp shadowing and I was literally gobsmacked when I took a top down box and photographed them.

Sw5uOo.jpg


6YToaR.jpg


fDuwkJ.jpg


This is why I switched to T5, but I believe many switch back to MH for the same reason. That plus the unique spectrum of the radium, with it's heavy blue and narrow green peak, really bring out the colors.

So if you could produce the EXACT same spectrum as a radium bulb then the coral colors would be identical. I don't think anyone here questions that. You would still need to handle the coverage (reflection) issue.
 
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

I tuned my LEDs to match the Radium 14,000k spectral output and still my corals are showing a lack of something.
 
If I was to genetically engineer a large group of fireflies that had the same output as a metal halide, could we use these over our reef tanks? They certainly would use a lot less electricity.

Anybody care to quantify the quantum of the hypothetical fireflies? Wait... probably not since defining and talking about a quantum with any sort of lucidity is hard enough on known quantities.

Your question is not any more relevant than the fireflies. Although, genetically engineered fireflies might actually be here before a LED that has an IDENTICAL spectrum to a MH.
 
doctorwhoreefer said:
Hey guys! I see metal halides and t5's are being compared to led's.
How is it possible that led's can grow some of the spectacular tanks I've seen on the internet that rival metal halides and t5's if led's don't work?
Click to expand...

Feel free to back up your statement with pictures of some of the "Spectacular" tanks grown under LEDs. Honestly I've looked and there are a handful at best, and none of the best of these looks as good as the best MH or T5 tanks.
 
doctorwhoreefer said:
Alright guys, I'll keep asking:

If a led fixture has IDENTICAL spectral output as a mh, other than intensities/lux/par/etc, what is the difference that makes metal halide a "higher quality light"?

Don't really care what you have to say with your opinions and personal preferences, but if you're going to take it to the extreme you are, I think I have my answer and so does anyone else who can see things logically.

This is the one question none of you can answer evidently. Oh sure, you can avoid it, but not answer it.
This is quite comical because I don't consider myself a lighting expert, but you're all playing verbal gymnastics avoiding it.

I mean really, if I'm wrong, and there's something in metal halides and the way they give off light, please inform me!
Am I missing something entirely? Is there extra photonic output or such that doesn't fall under the measurements of kelvin or intensities such as par/lux? lol..
Click to expand...

You have been answered but refuse to see. There is no current led that has an identical spectral output to a MH. What if doesn't count, what if the Universe was really a Milky Way bar? It doesn't matter because the Universe is not a Milky Way bar.
 
markalot said:
So if you could produce the EXACT same spectrum as a radium bulb then the coral colors would be identical. I don't think anyone here questions that. You would still need to handle the coverage (reflection) issue.
Click to expand...

First, I'm not trolling. I stated why I won't go back to mh's and I was confronted.

Now I've finally dug down through the crap being flung (probably over hard feelings with their pocketbook) and you have stated the very truth of it.

IF* (yes, big if) the kelvin is replicated, the major differences become, PAR/PUR/lumen etc, and the application. (reflectors or lenses)

You can't say metal halides are different light sources. They're applied differently.

Unless anyone can correct me with some new cutting edge quantum mechanics info?
 
sirreal63 said:
You have been answered but refuse to see. There is no current led that has an identical spectral output to a MH. What if doesn't count, what if the Universe was really a Milky Way bar? It doesn't matter because the Universe is not a Milky Way bar.
Click to expand...

Fine sirreal, I'll answer you.

If you have channels Red, Green, and Blue, what do you get?

And then what do you get when you add the last remaining spectrum to that light source?
 
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