Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[doctorwhoreefer]

My LEDs are GHL Mitras 6200 HV

I see a 425-660 nm measurement on that.
The first thought I would have is a lack of uv. Once you hit around 400nm, corals glow like mh. I discovered this with the exotic Stunner strips. Ended up buying 6 of them (36w) for my last fixture for one side of the tank because it really looks amazing, pretty much undistinguishable from mh imo..

 

[d2mini]

https://wwwgooglecom/search?q="led"...a=X&ei=1nyQVIXbIoaqyATz5oCoDA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

Maybe I should have used LMGTFY

Or maybe you should learn how to use the interwebs?
Linky no worky.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Or maybe you should learn how to use the interwebs?
Linky no worky.

Look at the url, I removed the periods.
Figured the filter might throw a fit.

 

[ghostman]

First, I'm not trolling. I stated why I won't go back to mh's and I was confronted.

First, you are trolling. You were not confronted, you gave some poor information and the information was corrected.

Second, I opened the link and looked at some of the photos in there. Most that I opened indicated that the reef lighting was something else supplemented by LEDs. The others were from manufacturers who obviously want to tout their product. Joe, Jack, Dennis, and Ryan have given you your answers multiple times. You refuse to listen to factual information. You add nothing to the back up your pointless arguements but someone's tanks that don't even use all LED lighting!!

 

[d2mini]

ok, i can't check them all, but this is the first one i clicked on and this is what was said about by the tank owner when asked what lighting he has...

48 cree royal blue led's, 4 x 54 w T5's in DIY hood. Just changed over to led's from 2 x 250 w MH's, corals are still adjusting.

This is VERY common when looking at pics and build threads.
The hard part is finding tanks like JPMagyar's tank where all those beautiful coral colonies were grown from frags under LED. Not grown under MH/T5 and then displayed under LED.

 

[markalot]

First, I'm not trolling. I stated why I won't go back to mh's and I was confronted.

Now I've finally dug down through the crap being flung (probably over hard feelings with their pocketbook) and you have stated the very truth of it.

IF* (yes, big if) the kelvin is replicated, the major differences become, PAR/PUR/lumen etc, and the application. (reflectors or lenses)

You can't say metal halides are different light sources. They're applied differently.

Unless anyone can correct me with some new cutting edge quantum mechanics info?

My take on this thread is that it's conversation dealing with the reality of current reef LED fixtures vs MH. You cannot produce the exact qualities of an MH lamp and quality reflector with any LED fixture. So you want to pretend you can and you also want to pretend that there are people here that don't believe that this mythical fixture that is exactly like MH will produce the same result.

Who or what are you arguing about?

1. You cannot produce the exact same spectrum as a MH bulb with today's LED technology

2. If you could you would still have to spend more money reproducing the reflected light qualities of a MH bulb + reflector

That's pretty much it. You lumped everyone in this thread together, called them a name, and claimed you were correct. That's how I see if and it's unfortunate.

 

[ghostman]

Actually my favorite reef in there is lit exclusively by T5. Thanks for providing us with your "proof".

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

First, you are trolling. You were not confronted, you gave some poor information and the information was corrected.

Second, I opened the link and looked at some of the photos in there. Most that I opened indicated that the reef lighting was something else supplemented by LEDs. The others were from manufacturers who obviously want to tout their product. Joe, Jack, and Ryan have given you your answers multiple times. You refuse to listen to factual information. You add nothing to the back up your pointless arguements but someone's tanks that don't even use all LED lighting!!

I dunno man, your response right now seems pretty confrontational.

If I'm incorrect, then please correct me and answer the question I've drilled down to.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

ok, i can't check them all, but this is the first one i clicked on and this is what was said about by the tank owner when asked what lighting he has...

This is VERY common when looking at pics and build threads.
The hard part is finding tanks like JPMagyar's tank where all those beautiful coral colonies were grown from frags under LED. Not grown under MH/T5 and then displayed under LED.

You bring up a very good point, but look harder. I have found at least a handful of people that have some of the most incredibly stocked sps tanks and they have had led's since 1st gen radions (surprised me) and the tanks are amazing.

So you cannot say led's don't work, or work well.

If this is the case, there HAS TO be a reason. These people are not special, they're using the same tools available to all of us.

My first inclination is that you have to bring nutrients up for the coloration, especially having a more direct light source. People talk of bleaching from led's, well ya, it's a completely different application of light. You've already described it.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Actually my favorite reef in there is lit exclusively by T5. Thanks for providing us with your "proof".

LOL
Ya, this isn't confrontational either.

 

[ghostman]

Ok. In simple terms. LEDs do NOT produce a spectrum like a MH bulb. Regardless of what your eyes see, there are gaps due to the inherent nature of an LED s described beautifully by JPMAYAR. It is INCORRECT to compare them in such a manner. All other areas of LED versus MH can have pluses and minuses. Heat, energy consumption, dusk/dawn effects have all been discussed in the thread. Read it and learn about it. I have read many statements from your posts that are just plain wrong. This is a disservice to the thread and the group. There, I have corrected you and given you the answer you've drilled down to. Like it or don't. It doesn't matter.

 

[d2mini]

You bring up a very good point, but look harder. I have found at least a handful of people that have some of the most incredibly stocked sps tanks and they have had led's since 1st gen radions (surprised me) and the tanks are amazing.

So you cannot say led's don't work, or work well.

If this is the case, there HAS TO be a reason. These people are not special, they're using the same tools available to all of us.

My first inclination is that you have to bring nutrients up for the coloration, especially having a more direct light source. People talk of bleaching from led's, well ya, it's a completely different application of light. You've already described it.

Well why don't you just post your favorite instead of sending us on a wild goose chase? You still refuse to go back and read this thread from the beginning, so how can you expect us to do your work?

Most of us have said that LED's can work for some people. I had some coral in my tank that loved them. Especially LPS. Some SPS looked good too. But there are still inherent problems with every commercially available LED fixture right now. And the way I see it... why bother? Why spend all that extra money upfront? Why be the guinea pig? Why risk thousands of dollars in livestock? When all i have to do is throw a mh/t5 combo setup over the tank and call it a day, while i watch everything explode in growth and color and overall health. And never have to think about light again until it's time to change bulbs.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Ok. In simple terms. LEDs do NOT produce a spectrum like a MH bulb. Regardless of what your eyes see, there are gaps due to the inherent nature of an LED s described beautifully by JPMAYAR. It is INCORRECT a to compare them in such a manner. All other areas of LED versus MH can have pluses and minuses. Heat, energy consumption, dusk/dawn effects have all been discussed in the thread. Read it and learn about it. I have read many statements from your posts that are just plain wrong. This is a disservice to the thread and the group. There, I have corrected you and given you the answer you've drilled down to. Like it or don't. It doesn't matter.

I am NOT denying led spectrums are different. But you CAN make different led's.
What happens when you combine red, blue, and green?

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

Well why don't you just post your favorite instead of sending us on a wild goose chase? You still refuse to go back and read this thread from the beginning, so how can you expect us to do your work?

I had to look for the answers, it seems you do too.

 

[MisterP]

Fine sirreal, I'll answer you.

If you have channels Red, Green, and Blue, what do you get?

And then what do you get when you add the last remaining spectrum to that light source?

You get a cobbled device that doesn't give you full spectrum.

What do I win for the correct answer?

Seriously though a red chip that throws out a 660nm wave, a green that puts out a 550nm wave, and a blue at 420nm or something different?

I'm pretty sure this is why people have been saying LEDs are cobbled or piecemealed together and don't provide full spectrum. MH and T5 provide a broad spectrum and not just a few pieces of the spectrum.

 

[d2mini]

I had to look for the answers, it seems you do too.

There's so much nonsense here today I don't even know what the question is. :uhoh3:
But whatever it is, I hope you find it. Being as lost as you are is no picnic, I'm sure.

 

[Fishmommy]

Its time to put the egos away and get back to what would be a useful discussion

 

[KafudaFish]

Dr. Who,

Why not instead of asking everyone else to provide these data, you provide evidence to support your position that LEDs are as good or better than MH as well as how both light sources are the same regarding your list of spectrum characteristics?


I for one am here to learn and look forward to seeing you present these data.
I hope that you do not ignore my request nor do you think that I am picking on you because I have questioned your statements.


Showing which tank is "better" based upon which light source is used is subjective but if you could present some numbers it would be a start to a discussion.

Thank you for your time and here is something that you may find interesting:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2449909&highlight=led

 

[ghostman]

I am NOT denying led spectrums are different. But you CAN make different led's.
What happens when you combine red, blue, and green?

Combine red, blue, and green what? Paint? That makes brown

Please research how "white" light is produced in LEDs. Ever wonder why the diode looks yellow? It is blue light passing through a phosphor coating. It is NOT a combination of conventional lighting as you proposed. Please do some research and you will find some remarkable answers. Good luck.

 

[doctorwhoreefer]

You get a cobbled device that doesn't give you full spectrum.

What do I win for the correct answer?

Seriously though a red chip that throws out a 660nm wave, a green that puts out a 550nm wave, and a blue at 420nm or something different?

I'm pretty sure this is why people have been saying LEDs are cobbled or piecemealed together and don't provide full spectrum. MH and T5 provide a broad spectrum and not just a few pieces of the spectrum.

Right. But even my blue and white older fixture made my montipora digitata grow like mad compared to the mh's I was using previous.. (talking that's not even close to a whole for peak points, unless all manufacturers lie about the led spectrum on the label lol)

I think there's more to play than led's vs mh/t5 these days, but there's this horrible mentality displayed towards people that explore new tech in this hobby. But I'm not talking about dosing whole organic soy milk because some dude in Asia is doing it and he has an awesome looking tank. We're talking about a lot of research and money into led's not only for aquariums, but because the dang planet needs it, and we're impacting the environments. So yes, there is a crap ton flowing into led's because older technologies are not as efficient.