Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
redwhiteandblue
New member
Not sure if you read the title of this thread or if you are a troll, but obviously this is not the place to ask for led recommendation...........:beer:
mmittlesteadt
New member
Nuff said.
Read the other 4000+ posts in this thread, and then get some real lighting experience under your belt.
After that, things might be a little clearer.
I've probably read at least 4000 threads on the subject.
The only thing I'm confused about is reading so many posts by seemingly experienced reef keepers buying expensive programmable LED lights, yet complaining about (or making it quite clear by their posts) that they do not know how to set and operate them, and then dumping them. The lights must be the problem given so much success by others. So that makes me wonder.
For example...I read a post (actually many similar posts) by someone who has successfully kept difficult corals for years under MH and/or T5's and then tries LED's, but thinks the LED's don't have the intensity of his previous lights, yet only runs the LED's at about 60% of their output.
I don't need to have years of reefkeeping experience to see the issue there.
Having said that, well if they don't work for you then they don't work for you. I'm also old enough and confident enough to not ever feel insulted by anyone on the internet.
mmittlesteadt
New member
No, I'm not calling anyone out. I'm seriously curious (based on what I've read as to what the perceived/real problem with LED's is) why LED's do not perform as well, when I've read so many success stories, combined with many user issues. And yes, there actually are user issues with some people. Try not to feel insulted because that is not my intention.
I'm sure many who choose to dump LED's have very valid and credible reasons. I was not addressing them. I'm looking for answers, not simply opinion. That's why the title of this thread caught my eye. What actually is better? What problems are inherent with LED's versus MH or T5's? I want to know, just as much as anyone else here does.
redwhiteandblue
New member
Led do have comparable intensity, however it is a more direct light source that tends to put hot spots on corals which is why many cannot run them at full intensity.
I tried led for over two years and never could get the colors I wanted. Spent close to 2k on different lighting. I really did want it to work. Could it be me, absolutely! However instead of guessing what intensity or spectrum I end I chose to eliminate one variable and go with clap on clap off halide to be able to fine tune my system and become more attentive to my livestock needs vs playing a guessing game with the lighting. Is it too intense, is it the spectrum, maybe my ramp is too long, maybe they are too high, too low.....as you can see this is exhausting, which is why I switched for the time being. I do plan to experiment on my frag tank with led in hopes maybe I can find the sweet spot.
I tried led for over two years and never could get the colors I wanted. Spent close to 2k on different lighting. I really did want it to work. Could it be me, absolutely! However instead of guessing what intensity or spectrum I end I chose to eliminate one variable and go with clap on clap off halide to be able to fine tune my system and become more attentive to my livestock needs vs playing a guessing game with the lighting. Is it too intense, is it the spectrum, maybe my ramp is too long, maybe they are too high, too low.....as you can see this is exhausting, which is why I switched for the time being. I do plan to experiment on my frag tank with led in hopes maybe I can find the sweet spot.
Wazzel
New member
LEDs are different, they perform different and have there own set of issues. They do work and can work quite well. I really do not like the better/worst comparison or that they are not for "serious reef keepers". As an LED user who has used Mh and VHO in the past it is my opinion they are as good, but not better. The real issues with LED are coverage, startup cost, controllability, lack of proven operating parameters and lack of uniformity across fixtures.
power boat jim
Well-known member
Here in lies the problem. There are no concrete answers to your questions. You can sift through the opinions and experiences given here and and decide for yourself on what the answers are. I would recommend you look under the threads for what ever Leds you are running if you want a better chance at getting answers to questions on what intensity and spectrum to run.
mbauma
New member
LOL, it was just a friendly jab.
But it's true.
My tank currently has a fixture that cost me $1k which included everything, even bulbs.
To get the same amount of light, I would need at least 6 Radion Pros which would cost me $4500.
This has nothing to do with success. My tank did fine under LED as shown in pics a couple pages back. I just wanted things the LEDs couldn't provide without spending a bunch more money.
Hey Dennis, can I ask what you went with? My Vegas are starting to fail after less than 2 years and I was looking at one of the Hamilton combos with MH and T5's. One of those to fit my 140 is just over 1k with the bulbs and everything.
This is my first large tank and I have the vegas mounted to the canopy of my DSA stand, so I'm not sure how to mount the MH if I go down that path.
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
Let me give you an analogy. Using one Kessil to light up a tank is like lighting up your family room using a commercial floodlight. Some places will be blindingly bright, others almost completely in shadow. Turning up the intensity won't help.
Lighting up a tank with MH using a proper reflector or especially T5s is like lighting that same room using 6-8 evenly spaced lamps.
Which room would you rather live in?
If I was lighting a tank with Kessils I'd use 3-4 at a minimum.
d2mini
Premium Member
My point is that it doesn't matter how many threads you read.
Nothing compares to actual experience.
As you can see, you read 4000 threads and you are still confused.
This thread in particular has many accounts from people who have long term experience with not only both lighting systems but with the hobby in general, which is why I suggest you read the thread.
d2mini
Premium Member
Exactly. No more than 10-12" between kessils in every direction.
I was one of those guys. I know the LEDs didnt have the visual intensity of my MH. I had 275 3-watt leds over my tank. I got a baseline number to start with using an Apogee Par meter. It still bleached some corals. LEDs have to many hot spots and too many variable. I think they work. But I dont think they are better than MH in fact incorporating the difficulty in settings I think they are slightly inferior. But they do have potential. I use them to supplement my MH. I think one of the major problems is with all that adjustability you are going to set it to what looks good to you. Not only does that vary widely person to person, the most aestheticaly pleasing to the eyes is almost never the best for the coral. So now you have massive variations tank to tank with lighting that may not even be right for your coral beam spotlighted down on a coral. Bad mojo. I've seen it with my own eyes. Ive watched ultra high end SPS corals fade, bleach, RTN, STN, stop growing, you name it. I had LEDs for 2 years. But now I know for sure with my own eyes in my own experience. So many other are finding the exact same thing to be the case.
DavidinGA
Active member
This is the other thing that is starting to plague it's ugly head - leds don't last as long as claimed.
I personally had a reef breeders photon 32 that I ran for 2 years fail. That's a lot of cash up in smoke for only two years of life...making me reconsider mh or T5's now again.
d2mini
Premium Member
Exactly what i got. The Cebu Sun.
3x 250w Radiums with M80 ballasts.
For the T5 I am currently running one Giessemann Super Actinic, two KZ Super Blue, and one Coral+.
markalot
...
What failed, and did they offer to cover it or at least discount any repair.
I expect LED fixtures to fail early, there's a lot more to an LED fixture than the diodes. To claim something will last 50K hours because one part will last 50K hours is silly.
It's another example of the over-promised features of LED that just aren't there.I had a Cree home LED bulb, 60W, just fail on me after 6 months. Looks like the circuitry not the diode failed. It's covered under warranty just like all the home CF bulbs that died early were covered.
DavidinGA
Active member
What failed, and did they offer to cover it or at least discount any repair.
I expect LED fixtures to fail early, there's a lot more to an LED fixture than the diodes. To claim something will last 50K hours because one part will last 50K hours is silly.
I had a Cree home LED bulb, 60W, just fail on me after 6 months. Looks like the circuitry not the diode failed. It's covered under warranty just like all the home CF bulbs that died early were covered.
Circuitry and at least one driver failed. They offered to fix it but I'd be out shipping+labor+parts (an unknown about of $ for labor and parts they said). I sold it as-is to someone instead.
mmittlesteadt
New member
I completely agree that nothing compares to experience and that goes for anything in life. Booksmart only goes so far. I have read this entire thread all the way through. Mostly because I wish to gain knowledge from others experience. I'm enjoying reading this thread specifically because I can see a consensus among the many experienced users that LED's don't quite cut it...yet. Technology develops over time. Perhaps in the future, the shortcomings of LED usage will be solved.
There are a lot of reasons why some experience success and others do not with any kind of lighting system, and lighting alone may not be entire reason for either. Far too many variables (even if the only thing that was changed by the user was the lighting system).
My original point (that some took as an insult) was not a jab at people's experience with LED's as if they were morons. It was more that from reading so many other threads specifically on LED usage, that many (not all obviously) who did not like the results, also did not know how to employ them properly. My point was not directed at those that did know and still did not like them.
I do know a few people (in person) who I have had the benefit of seeing their tanks, their corals, their lighting systems (and how they use them) and the kind of success they are having. So my confusion lies not in being ignorant of the facts, but rather..."Why do some people have amazing success with LED's, and others not?"
That is a valid question that is not intended to be insulting to others, nor does it warrant anyone insulting me nor my intelligence. Apologies if anyone took my posts the wrong way.
Carry on. I enjoy this thread.
d2mini
Premium Member
No one took it as an insult or tried to insult you.
First, the definition of "amazing results" will vary from person to person.
Second, the only people that have good success with LED (that i know of) are bathing the tank in lots of light. Many more fixtures than originally recommended. This has been shown and talked about here in this thread.
firebirdude
User and Abuser
Awful lot of LED lighting in the for sale section.
Just sayin. lol
Just sayin. lol
mhucasey
Acros & wieners, oh my!
What failed, and did they offer to cover it or at least discount any repair.
I expect LED fixtures to fail early, there's a lot more to an LED fixture than the diodes. To claim something will last 50K hours because one part will last 50K hours is silly.
I had a Cree home LED bulb, 60W, just fail on me after 6 months. Looks like the circuitry not the diode failed. It's covered under warranty just like all the home CF bulbs that died early were covered.
IMO any major piece of aquarium equipment's warranty isn't worth squat to me unless the company immediately ships a replacement for what broke. The tank can't afford to wait weeks for me to send something to the MFR for repairs. Some companies will stand behind their product like that, but not many.
That's one more benefit for existing tech. Each piece, such as bulb, ballast, connector, etc. is easily replaced and readily available.
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