Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
- Thread starter Goldcoastreefs
- Start date
power boat jim
Well-known member
There is no fixture with all 3. It is physically impossible to get MH bulbs to burn cool. They work by having a ballast create enough voltage to start an arc in a tube and it gets increasingly hotter until the gas in the tube starts to glow. In other words they need heat to work. LEDs work in a somewhat different fashion that produces far more light per watt used vs MH hence they run cooler. Thats the readers digest version anyway.
See Sig
1) If you add up all the watts with all 4 lights on you get 240Watts
2) With 4 of them, there is very little side shading issues (so far but ill know more after i mature the tank and add more corals).
3)Of the ones listed above...the Kessils ARE pretty much plug and play (if you have the goose necks the set up is faster than MHs).
4)Regarding the spectrum being best 405 to 430 my lights put out precisely in those wave lengths, have added UV and are adjustable and never need the bulbs replacing.
5) Folks do have their corals go through shock and near death/deat experiences when switching. very simply because corals develop a light profile. In the same way there are people who train themeslevs to play volley ball on the beach all day without getting burnt while other people go out in the sun for 5 minutes and almost get blistered...corals also adapt to what ever light you put over them. The shock they go through when switching rapidly from one to another is a commentary on biology, not on the technology.
One thing i do suspect we will see is that while over time you keep MHs charged by replacing bulbs and ballasts, i suspect (even though the manufacturers dance around this)...you WILL see a 5% to 15% loss of intensity fron an LED array over a period of 3 to 5 years. This would not include a spectral shift (a plus). I had just planned to compensate for this gradual loss by having a healty replacement and or haveing a couple extra lights over what is recommended (which i have).
1) If you add up all the watts with all 4 lights on you get 240Watts
2) With 4 of them, there is very little side shading issues (so far but ill know more after i mature the tank and add more corals).
3)Of the ones listed above...the Kessils ARE pretty much plug and play (if you have the goose necks the set up is faster than MHs).
4)Regarding the spectrum being best 405 to 430 my lights put out precisely in those wave lengths, have added UV and are adjustable and never need the bulbs replacing.
5) Folks do have their corals go through shock and near death/deat experiences when switching. very simply because corals develop a light profile. In the same way there are people who train themeslevs to play volley ball on the beach all day without getting burnt while other people go out in the sun for 5 minutes and almost get blistered...corals also adapt to what ever light you put over them. The shock they go through when switching rapidly from one to another is a commentary on biology, not on the technology.
One thing i do suspect we will see is that while over time you keep MHs charged by replacing bulbs and ballasts, i suspect (even though the manufacturers dance around this)...you WILL see a 5% to 15% loss of intensity fron an LED array over a period of 3 to 5 years. This would not include a spectral shift (a plus). I had just planned to compensate for this gradual loss by having a healty replacement and or haveing a couple extra lights over what is recommended (which i have).
ClippersTown
New member
I think alot of people are dropping LED's because 1) did not acclimate their corals properly when switching from mh to leds 2) alot got the blue and white units only, thus the lack of growth. The cheaper units of today, even reef radiance and reef breeders, are mostly full spectrum now.
Thanks for pointing that out, i just thought MH were old tech.
bernie lyons
New member
science
science
And when science is wrong...?
I mean that is a rediculous statement to make considering science has been wrong on alot of things (medicine,technology,diseases ,ect)... Only problem is most scientists don't have the education to admit !!!
science
And when science is wrong...?
I mean that is a rediculous statement to make considering science has been wrong on alot of things (medicine,technology,diseases ,ect)... Only problem is most scientists don't have the education to admit !!!
Aqualund
New member
Are you kidding me? This is a joke right?
Science is a process. It starts off wrong most times but arrives at the right answer with adherence to the scientific method.
Thats fine if you dont respect that, but the information I was pointing out is scientifically proven, peer reviewed, and not up for debate. Just like the science that was used to create the computer you're typing on, seems like that is pretty accurate science.
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bernie lyons
New member
joking
joking
Right - NOT ! Let's see now , science (western medicine) thought it had cures for just about every illness and "pumped" into people's heads that the "pharmaceutical Ideology" was the ONLY way to cure and sustain your health. However,as of late that "claim" has now fallen on "deaf ears" as more and more evidence has proven to be the contrary !
Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) has prevailed over the "pharmaceutical ideology-allopathic medicine" in quite a few countries now by using herbal(Herbology) medicine's to deal with the body ,mind and spirit in strengthening the immune system as oppose to "attacking" the problem via "drugs".Also, there are various forms of external health methods and practice's, such as: (accupunture, tiu na, shiatsu,ect.) that deal with day to day pressures and depressions to keep the body and mind healthy.
Science has a place for everyone as long as it reconizes other traditonal methods of health instead of being either arrogant and or using "blinders" in the lab . Funny though, I have been seeing a plethora of "natural pathic herbal" medicine - pills on many store's shelves that have been "approved' by the science companies.... Ummm - Ironic isn't it !
As far as technology goes ,here's one for you...About 12 years ago "science and technology" thought they made the "perfect sound " for music and spent quite a few dollars on BS PR to convince people that vinyle records were of no use anymore and that CD's (invented by Sony) were the answer to all problems(ticks ,noise hiss,durability, distortion, ect) However, if you had heard these so-called perfect sounding cd's compared to a vinyle record you would have sworn that somebody had just created the "worst" joke in history ! Try telling a scientists that the cd sounded "Absolutely horrible" next the vinyl record and he'd tell you that they measured the frequency response and distortion in the lab and tell you that "you are wrong"? Well, isn't it funny that even today there has not been any refuting even from Sony's engineers that vinyl records do indeed sound "MUCH" better than cd's ! That fact was not measured but "listened" to by these very same engineers in a recording studio !
joking
Right - NOT ! Let's see now , science (western medicine) thought it had cures for just about every illness and "pumped" into people's heads that the "pharmaceutical Ideology" was the ONLY way to cure and sustain your health. However,as of late that "claim" has now fallen on "deaf ears" as more and more evidence has proven to be the contrary !
Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) has prevailed over the "pharmaceutical ideology-allopathic medicine" in quite a few countries now by using herbal(Herbology) medicine's to deal with the body ,mind and spirit in strengthening the immune system as oppose to "attacking" the problem via "drugs".Also, there are various forms of external health methods and practice's, such as: (accupunture, tiu na, shiatsu,ect.) that deal with day to day pressures and depressions to keep the body and mind healthy.
Science has a place for everyone as long as it reconizes other traditonal methods of health instead of being either arrogant and or using "blinders" in the lab . Funny though, I have been seeing a plethora of "natural pathic herbal" medicine - pills on many store's shelves that have been "approved' by the science companies.... Ummm - Ironic isn't it !
As far as technology goes ,here's one for you...About 12 years ago "science and technology" thought they made the "perfect sound " for music and spent quite a few dollars on BS PR to convince people that vinyle records were of no use anymore and that CD's (invented by Sony) were the answer to all problems(ticks ,noise hiss,durability, distortion, ect) However, if you had heard these so-called perfect sounding cd's compared to a vinyle record you would have sworn that somebody had just created the "worst" joke in history ! Try telling a scientists that the cd sounded "Absolutely horrible" next the vinyl record and he'd tell you that they measured the frequency response and distortion in the lab and tell you that "you are wrong"? Well, isn't it funny that even today there has not been any refuting even from Sony's engineers that vinyl records do indeed sound "MUCH" better than cd's ! That fact was not measured but "listened" to by these very same engineers in a recording studio !
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Real Reefer
In Memoriam
I don't think anyone can deny the fact that leds are the future of reef lighting,But I really can't see how anybody can honestly say leds are better then metal halide and t5 right now,Whoever saying that is just caught up in the hype imo.If someone was to come up to you guys and say they wanted a sps dominated tank and needed to know what the best lighting would be to grow and color up sps coral what would you guys honestly tell them?the answer is metal halide or t5ho because the proof is in the pudding and nobody can argue that lol and if ya try its a waste of time tbh.We all know some of the better leds grow and color up coral really well but hasnt reached metal halide or t5 levels yet,but when they do I'll be going back to Leds just think its a few years away.And the heating and electricity issues are just a joke imo iv never had a metal halide heat up a tank so much that I wanted to buy led,iv never had to use any type of fan to help keep the heat off the tank,Iv never even had to run the fans that are built in the halide fixtures iv had.Never noticed much of a difference on my electric bill either.So I think its hilarious seeing people using those reasons to talk down on metal halides or t5s lol always lookin for something.But one thing you can't argue against is proof and halides and t5 are provin to grow and color up coral like no other
Real Reefer
In Memoriam
No the majority of people are dropping leds because they had better results with other lighting plain and simple lol.Please don't say its cause we weren't educated.I think people like having a light like metal halide that they know for a fact is giving there coral what they need to thrive rather then stressing trying to figure out if there leds have the right spectrum or not
I really wish people would stop saying things like this. The only thing about it that is correct is that there are herbal remedies that work. Most of the ones that do have been refined (by science) and incorporated into modern medicine.
The proof of the pudding is after all in the eating. Coming from a family plagued by cancer, most of us survivors....knock on wood, I can tell you with 100% certainty that if you have a serious problem you go with with modern medicine. Can you show me one parent whose first choice for a child with a life threatening disease was homeopathy? Opinions like yours are usually based on the luxury of never having stared mortality in the face.
Science is responsible for almost every advancement in our lives for the last 300 years. From communication to penicillin and ever something as trivial as led lights over a reef tank. Science is also responsible for MH, T5 and every other non candle light source there is so unless you want to light your tank with candles or a wood fire may I suggest you stop berating it.
Aqualund
New member
This is probably the worst and weakest argument against science I have ever read. Like I said, if you dont want to "believe" in science, thats fine, but dont discredit the work of others with your own ignorant belief system.
bernie lyons
New member
science
science
science refined a 25 centuries year old Chinese herbal medicines ? Now who's being ignorant here...
However , I am sorry to hear that your family has gone through some very rough times !
I do know what it is like to have family members with this dreaded cancer.
science
science refined a 25 centuries year old Chinese herbal medicines ? Now who's being ignorant here...
However , I am sorry to hear that your family has gone through some very rough times !
I do know what it is like to have family members with this dreaded cancer.
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That would be you, even though I do not understand why you feel the need to use that word.
Science is simply learning through experimentation and observation. It is not exclusive to the modern world but was also involved in developing "25 centuries year old Chinese herbal medicines". The difference is that today we know a lot more and have far superior methods of observation. Belladonna for example has been used for thousands of years with varying results, mostly good, in traditional medicine. Medical science recognized this, worked on it and today we have the active ingredient synthesized and in pill form with far more stable results. Things like Rhino and Deer horn for fertility for example has been thoroughly disproven by medical science but still remain in many schools of traditional medicine, including traditional Chinese medicine.
Many of the people speaking against led display how little they know about the the science behind the topic at hand (and to be fair some of the ones who speak for it too). To claim that an opinion about led lights is valid because the person giving it has a large sps tank is one of the low points. Another is the common "I tried led and they suck/rock" argument. My personal favorite is when you find "led gives good growth but terrible coloring" and "led gives great colors but can not grow corals" on the same page of a discussion. We have all seen these arguments and it is what happens when you totally leave science out of it.
One thing that traditional/herbal medicine and led reef lights have in common is that they are mostly unregulated and lack industry standards. Fix this and we will get rid of many of the plain awful led systems out there today....and homeopathy.
AcroporAddict
There is no substitute.
One thing about the halide vs LED debate is that most reefers are not technically savvy enough to understand/design/build or have built an LED light with the appropriate spectrum for SPS corals (myself included), so the vast majority have no other choice but to rely on commercially built fixtures.
Just through my use of a couple of the most popular ones (AI and Radions), I know they are not as good as Halides for SPS color. I cannot necessarily judge all LEDs on that experience, but I would guess I am one of the majority of Reefers in not being able to build my own that would provide the spectrum SPS need for comparable SPS color from halides halides.
Just through my use of a couple of the most popular ones (AI and Radions), I know they are not as good as Halides for SPS color. I cannot necessarily judge all LEDs on that experience, but I would guess I am one of the majority of Reefers in not being able to build my own that would provide the spectrum SPS need for comparable SPS color from halides halides.
bernie lyons
New member
homeopathy
homeopathy
I know of one man that turned to science to fix his health and got alot worse then he turned to herbal medicine and it saved his life ! Now should we paint a broad brush against all herbal medicine docterines or take the rotten apples out and learn to understand the good of it? These so - called industry standards you talk about are the very reason why doctors get away with prescribing bad addictive drugs to hook their patients onto because they can get away with it,...these are the drugs that phamaceutical drug companies approve of and love to make money on,ha,ha,ha. What an condradictory point you make about industry standards ...LOL!
homeopathy
I know of one man that turned to science to fix his health and got alot worse then he turned to herbal medicine and it saved his life ! Now should we paint a broad brush against all herbal medicine docterines or take the rotten apples out and learn to understand the good of it? These so - called industry standards you talk about are the very reason why doctors get away with prescribing bad addictive drugs to hook their patients onto because they can get away with it,...these are the drugs that phamaceutical drug companies approve of and love to make money on,ha,ha,ha. What an condradictory point you make about industry standards ...LOL!
bernie lyons
New member
science
science
I think your head is stuck in a beaker !!! perhaps you should listen to music, go to a gallery and look at fine art, drink a bottle of fine wine, learn to play an instrument , these are what science cannot duplicate nor grasp in explaining how the "human senses" are able to put into such artistic emotions and dynamic expression ! I am not against science whatsoever , but most of my learning in the hobby beyond my studies is using good-old logic...if it looks bad but tests good then we must rethink what we are testing ...if it looks good but tests bad then we are measuring the wrong thing !
science
I think your head is stuck in a beaker !!! perhaps you should listen to music, go to a gallery and look at fine art, drink a bottle of fine wine, learn to play an instrument , these are what science cannot duplicate nor grasp in explaining how the "human senses" are able to put into such artistic emotions and dynamic expression ! I am not against science whatsoever , but most of my learning in the hobby beyond my studies is using good-old logic...if it looks bad but tests good then we must rethink what we are testing ...if it looks good but tests bad then we are measuring the wrong thing !
bernie lyons
New member
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