Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[nynick]

:twitch:
But I forgot to mention something that bothers me the most about LED fixtures out there... :fun2:
Well, I know that aluminium (for heatsinks) is quite expensive, but why all LED chips must be placed in such small clusters?!? That's the biggest reason for shadows. If one would spread chips wider, the light would be more T5 look alike.

Not all LED's are placed in small clusters and I suspect the reason that some are is shimmer rather than savings.

I would agree with you if it was a grow out tank. For a display tank, shadows are great and so is the shimmer that comes with pin point light. It is basically mimicking the sun and makes for an interesting tank.

A display tank isn't supposed to prioritize maximum growth in every corner. It is supposed to look great and shadows play a HUGE role in this.

 

[power boat jim]

No offense but those aren't metal halide or t5 colors. That's exactly what my sps looked like under leds to and that is exactly the reason why so many led users have switched back to halides and the reason halide users haven't switched to led, I'm sure most of us halide/t5 users will stick with our halides/t5s until something is proven better

I would reserve judgement on what actual colors of that tank or any other for that matter really are. Getting representative pictures, especially of LED lit tanks, has proven troublesome. There are far too many variables in putting pics online to say one tank cant compare to another.

 

[heritage]

Sorry, but par doesn't mean squat. You can have the brightest fixture in the world but if an important part of the spectrum is missing your coral will suffer.

 

[alton]

Meshwheel contact the person in the video and tell him to turn off the 500 watts of MH and 440 watts of VHO and then show us the PAR readings and what the tank looks like?

And for Heritage PAR meters do not measure the intensity of a lamp or LED that would be a Foot Candle/Lux Meter, PAR meters measure the amount of useable light? I will give you an example Marineland Reef capable LED. A PAR reading of 200 on top and 100 16" down but has 4000 foot candles as compared to my 250w MH mounted 8" above the tank which has 2500 foot candles and a PAR reading of 1900 on top and 500 16" down.

 

[heritage]

Meshwheel contact the person in the video and tell him to turn off the 500 watts of MH and 440 watts of VHO and then show us the PAR readings and what the tank looks like?

And for Heritage PAR meters do not measure the intensity of a lamp or LED that would be a Foot Candle/Lux Meter, PAR meters measure the amount of useable light? I will give you an example Marineland Reef capable LED. A PAR reading of 200 on top and 100 16" down but has 4000 foot candles as compared to my 250w MH mounted 8" above the tank which has 2500 foot candles and a PAR reading of 1900 on top and 500 16" down.

Gotcha, but I understood par to be active radiation and not usable radiation.

 

[TropTrea]

The big difference between a perfect PAR lmeter and a perfect Lumns meter is that the Lumns meter measures light in relationship to what the human eye sees it. Alumin meter gives very little value to the blue and red ends of the color spectrum and a lot of value to green light. The Par meter gives equal value to light at all wave lengths within the photosynthesis range including green light which seldom utilized. As a result a loght source will have a non proportionately higher Lumns reading if it has a lot of of green light. Unfortunately most PAR meters do loos sensitivity when you get under to wave lengths under 450 nm. which is important range with Corals. So with a strong near UV light source the PAR meters even start loosing effectiveness.

Spectrum and intensity at specific wave lengths are much more important than any of the prior. But unless we have expensive light analyzing equipment we are at the mercy of other including the light manufacturers to provide this information. Yet they will seldom give us this information in detail unless we start probing for information on the component level. This leaves us with nothing but rough spectrum plots and Par reading for comparison.

But even knowing what the light source is producing does not answer all our questions as even the experts will disagree on exactly what light corals utilize best, and the differences between different corals. We know that some corals trive in the ocean at 50 meter but cannot survive at 10 meter, we also know the opposite is true for other corals. What is the difference probably light. Yet we often try to keep both of these corals in the same tank side by side.

 

[mos90]

i have been fooling with leds for a few years now. i have used maxspect,ai,kessil,reefbreeders and ecotech. none of them, for me, have been able to produce colors of a 250 or 400w radium. yet... im still optimistic .

currently i am using custom reefbreeder led fixtures. i have only owned them for a few months and still increasing intensity. time will tell if they can compete.

i always keep a few mh ballasts and reflectors ready to go just in case i decide to switch back .

 

[ridetheducati]

none of them, for me, have been able to produce colors of a 250 or 400w radium. yet... im still optimistic .

I think that is where most hobbyist go wrong. LEDs are not a direct substitute for MH, it is alternative light source. Anyone looking for an one for one replacement solution, will be disappointed with LEDs. Nothing original here, but worth reiterating. In addition, I dont think manufactures are looking to reproduce the MH look, they want an unique solution.

Disclaimer: MH continues to be the heavy weight champ and I used them for years. I started a new build 14 months ago with LEDs and its just as successful as my previous MH setups.

 

[mos90]

i just love the radiums color so much.. i would like for an led to replicate it.

 

[power boat jim]

i just love the radiums color so much.. i would like for an led to replicate it.

40/65/68 on an AI blue sol is a match. Ran them side by side and that is how I set the AI for that look.

 

[mos90]

i guess its been so long since i had my sol's i dont remember.

 

[JWClark]

Hate to ask my first question here but looks like as good a place as any. I'm betting this will stir up a hornets nest like asking whether plastic or wax foundation is best on the beesource site.

Setting up a 125g system with my son (he talked me into it). Last tank I had was a 55 mixed reef w/ 4 96w PCs 12 yrs ago.

Always wanted MH back in the day but couldn't afford. Now, all of a sudden I see all this hype about LEDs and I'm trying to decide which route to go.

If LED was thinking of BLM 12k and a custom 72" that blends their actinic and purple haze strips. My big worry is that LEDs produce light at very specific wavelengths so the spectrum available to critters can be limited. I know they have "whites" but I worry that important wavelengths (of both known and unknown importance) may be lacking.

For MH was thinking 72" 250 cebu sun but only have one center brace so I worry about the MH directly above it. Could do 2 250 pendants (HQI Guiessman Marine 13k) w/ Lumatek 250/400 dimmable ballasts or 2 Reefbrite Hybrids. With this though, worried about coverage with only two MH. Also worried about heat and would rather not have to get a chiller.

Part of me really wants the MH because that was the best back in the day but the LEDs have that bright shiny new appeal.

BLM LED pros: can cover tank, low heat. Cons: possible limited wavelengths, possible shadowing. What about shimmer w/ a full strip--important to me?

MH pros: proven, complete spectrum range, shimmer. Cons: heat, need to hang, more power, more cords, coverage for 2 bulbs.

Thoughts/suggestions?

If you use LED, particularly BLM, how long have you had them and what stock do you have? How about coralline growth on LR?

 

[kdumph]

Wow that was a lot of reading! I think I can make an informed decision at least now.

 

[rtparty]

Hate to ask my first question here but looks like as good a place as any. I'm betting this will stir up a hornets nest like asking whether plastic or wax foundation is best on the beesource site.

Setting up a 125g system with my son (he talked me into it). Last tank I had was a 55 mixed reef w/ 4 96w PCs 12 yrs ago.

Always wanted MH back in the day but couldn't afford. Now, all of a sudden I see all this hype about LEDs and I'm trying to decide which route to go.

If LED was thinking of BLM 12k and a custom 72" that blends their actinic and purple haze strips. My big worry is that LEDs produce light at very specific wavelengths so the spectrum available to critters can be limited. I know they have "whites" but I worry that important wavelengths (of both known and unknown importance) may be lacking.

For MH was thinking 72" 250 cebu sun but only have one center brace so I worry about the MH directly above it. Could do 2 250 pendants (HQI Guiessman Marine 13k) w/ Lumatek 250/400 dimmable ballasts or 2 Reefbrite Hybrids. With this though, worried about coverage with only two MH. Also worried about heat and would rather not have to get a chiller.

Part of me really wants the MH because that was the best back in the day but the LEDs have that bright shiny new appeal.

BLM LED pros: can cover tank, low heat. Cons: possible limited wavelengths, possible shadowing. What about shimmer w/ a full strip--important to me?

MH pros: proven, complete spectrum range, shimmer. Cons: heat, need to hang, more power, more cords, coverage for 2 bulbs.

Thoughts/suggestions?

If you use LED, particularly BLM, how long have you had them and what stock do you have? How about coralline growth on LR?

6x80w ATI Sunpower. Will cover the entire tank without issue and you will have one of the best lights on the market.

 

[alton]

I have one 6' buildmyled 14k on my 125 and my softies and Gorgonians love it. If I want SPS or LPS I would have to add a second.

 

[JWClark]

6x80w ATI Sunpower. Will cover the entire tank without issue and you will have one of the best lights on the market.

Thanks--but I want a shimmer effect. This, the T5s can't supply.

Back on my last tank I saved for two months to buy my 4 ballast 96w PC system. Was the new up and coming thing at the time but it obviously didn't last. Can't even find a reflector for them if I want to use now. Still have the ballasts though.

Had 2 10ks and 2 actinics at the time and they did great--but no shimmer

 

[AcroporAddict]

Pic heavy: Halide and VHO Actinic SPS Reef

Pic heavy: Halide and VHO Actinic SPS Reef

Here is my 4 x 400 watt Radium/UVL Super Actinic lit 465 gallon SPS reef tank. I am not a great photographer. Used to a cheapo point and shoot digital, and just bought a Canon Rebel T3 and took these picures with a beginner macro lens and/or an 18-55 standard lens. No processing of color. Some of the pics are a bit blurry, as I did not use a tripod for the macro shots. Anyways, rendition is a bit bluer than real life, but the colors are 96% of what you'd see in person.

I could not get this level of SPS color intensity with Radions or AI Sol Blues, which I have a year's experience with each over SPS dominant tanks, which is why I use Halides/VHOs.

 

[rtparty]

Thanks--but I want a shimmer effect. This, the T5s can't supply.

Back on my last tank I saved for two months to buy my 4 ballast 96w PC system. Was the new up and coming thing at the time but it obviously didn't last. Can't even find a reflector for them if I want to use now. Still have the ballasts though.

Had 2 10ks and 2 actinics at the time and they did great--but no shimmer

Reefbrite or BML strip added to the front. Shimmer solved.

Make sure no matter what that you see LED shimmer in person. It's not like metal halide shimmer.

 

[AcroporAddict]

Rest of the pics.

Rest of the pics.

Could only load 10 max. Here are the last 10.

 

[JWClark]

I have one 6' buildmyled 14k on my 125 and my softies and Gorgonians love it. If I want SPS or LPS I would have to add a second.

If you added a second would it be a another 14k or an actinic? Standard or XB?

Also, you have tank mounts or is it suspended--if so, how high?

Thought about going w/ 2 standard to start--1 12k and on actinic (or custom actinic).