Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[Mikefromaz]

The one problem with LEDS is that there are tons of cheap and wannabe manufacturers who cause a lot of negative vibes by unhappy customers. Personally I don't care for the over done use of blue in some of the systems. Perhaps I haven't dived deep enough in the ocean to see how real these blue lighting offers are, but I suspect (and like) enough of a warm touch over my tank to convince me of sunny shallower water. There's no right or wrong in my opinion, just preference. Of course actinic and near UV spectrums are required for coral growth...great stuff for dawn and dusk lighting.

 

[Real Reefer]

I switched back to metal halides a few weeks ago.I was using an AI sol blue and got some growth but color wasn't there.Iv seen awesome improvements since going back to halide.And no more stressing about corals growing or coloring up I know that they have the right spectrum over them now.Again not knocking leds like I said I only tried an ai sol.But I do have multiple friends that have switched from gen 2 radions and pros back to halide or t5 And are happy they did to

 

[Tank2379]

Yeah I switched back these lights if not dial in properly will destroy a coral.. I had issues keeping chalics and even some softies under LED because it was too strong. And going thru the ramp up and ramp down it a pita trying to figure out what's wrong... Ain't nobody got time fo that!!! Folks want to continue to blame water quality on coral deaths but I believe it's the power and mixing of the spectrum is the cause....

 

[HurricaneSystem]

As others have said in the thread, I think the mistake is one of people buying the cheap LED fixtures. Same as Halides really, the cheaper you buy, the less quality you see.

If you were to purchase Mitras, Radion Pro's, Kessil A360W's etc. you would be just fine. I tried AI Vega's and had disastrous results.

The UV spectrum, let me make that clear so there is no ambiguity, spectrum, is necessary for LED coral growth. It is a must.

 

[nynick]

As others have said in the thread, I think the mistake is one of people buying the cheap LED fixtures. Same as Halides really, the cheaper you buy, the less quality you see.

If you were to purchase Mitras, Radion Pro's, Kessil A360W's etc. you would be just fine. I tried AI Vega's and had disastrous results.

The UV spectrum, let me make that clear so there is no ambiguity, spectrum, is necessary for LED coral growth. It is a must.

It seems like the people buying the cheapest of them all has also had some of the best results. The customizable diy and cheap Chinese ones will be as good (or as bad!!) as the research you put into it.

If you want plug and play though, you are of course correct.


....and after having lived in English speaking countries for over 25 years. I finally managed to not have the spell check yell at me for misspelling research. Am I brilliant or what?? 25 more and I can perhaps spell avlaiaible (I HATE THAT WORD!) too? Time to hijack this thread and talk about whether English is in need of a spelling reform or not.

 

[Real Reefer]

There has been many many many people that use only white and royal blue led fixtures that have sps dominated tanks that look great.So nobody can blame people for only switching back to halides because they didn't try some of the fixtures with more of a spectrum.Bottom line is halides and t5 just grow and color coral up better right now and we all really know that deep down inside lol.

 

[Mikefromaz]

What about maxpect?

What about maxpect?

It seems like the people buying the cheapest of them all has also had some of the best results. The customizable diy and cheap Chinese ones will be as good (or as bad!!) as the research you put into it.

If you want plug and play though, you are of course correct.


....and after having lived in English speaking countries for over 25 years. I finally managed to not have the spell check yell at me for misspelling research. Am I brilliant or what?? 25 more and I can perhaps spell avlaiaible (I HATE THAT WORD!) too? Time to hijack this thread and talk about whether English is in need of a spelling reform or not.

Has anyone had exceptionally good (or bad) results with Maxspect Razor?

 

[Twistofer]

I started with MaxSpect Mazarra's. So far so good. I'm right now doing some softies. My Haddon's just love to bask in the light. I like the settings, both for cloudy and sunshiny days. They also have modes you can program. They definitely "outshine" my old T5's.

 

[nickandMK]

Personally love t5s the growth is great good color and the corals love them to

 

[bernie lyons]

lighting

lighting

UMmm...Been using 2 x 400- 20K radium plus 2x VHO t-12 actinics for years than in my next tank went with a "one off" custom made 6ft giesemann with four x 250 - 20K HQI bulbs electronic ballasts (external),didn't need any actinics.This was the best of the lighting I had until the ballasts went ...
Looking now at some of the new Plasma lighting that has recently made it's way into the hobby. The advantage that I see is the same (glitter lines) that you get in the tank as the metal halides, the Plasma is also much more durable and only needs replacing the 'arc' ignitor about every six years and runs cooler then the metal halides to boot. The downside is they are expensive and are running in the 5500 - 6000 K range for now but I'm sure that will change , so running your choice of actinics will be important to get the proper balance of light.So far these Plasma's have been successful in keeping all kinds of corals and clams so there is where I see the future for getting equivalent performance to metal halides IMO.

 

[AcroporAddict]

The UV spectrum, let me make that clear so there is no ambiguity, spectrum, is necessary for LED coral growth. It is a must.

You are entirely wrong with this statement. I had Radion G1s over a 300/465 gallon SPS reef and had lots of coral growth. Had two G1s over a 100 gallon mixed LPS/Softy tank and had lots of growth as well. There was no UV in any of these lights. The Radion's issue is it will not color SPS corals up like Halides can. It is a fantastic fixture for LPS and Soft corals, particularly the Pro version with the additional UVs and more intense white LEDs.

Coral growth under LEDs has never been the issue, regardless of UV or not.

 

[Aqualund]

You are entirely wrong with this statement. I had Radion G1s over a 300/465 gallon SPS reef and had lots of coral growth. Had two G1s over a 100 gallon mixed LPS/Softy tank and had lots of growth as well. There was no UV in any of these lights. The Radion's issue is it will not color SPS corals up like Halides can. It is a fantastic fixture for LPS and Soft corals, particularly the Pro version with the additional UVs and more intense white LEDs.

Coral growth under LEDs has never been the issue, regardless of UV or not.

Actually there has been some issues with coral growth based on species with only rb/w 1:1 led lighting.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/aafeature

so yes I can say 90% of my sps have been just fine under 1:1 for the last two years, but this article definitely explains some of my difficulties in the pocillipora and seriatapora families. Since I have added supplemental lighting in the peak chlorophyll a and b spectrums I have not had any issues. One of those peaks is 428nm or UV...so there might be some merit in the needs of different spectrums for particular corals.

 

[robsk]

I switched from metal halides to leds about 5 months ago. I'm enjoying the ride. With the naked eye you would be hard pressed to know that I made the switch. I run an led with no optics and the visible light in my tank looks virtually the same.

I added uv just a month or so ago because of the "pop" in coral color that was described to me. It confused me at first because the uv light is almost invisible to the human eye (I can adjust uv from 0-100 and couldn't see a difference). What I discovered is that in a matter of a few days of adding uv, my corals' colors changed for the better giving more of that "pop".

So in my experience, there is some merit to the uv spectrum. Can't speak to the growth part of it yet, but definitely makes a difference for coral coloration.

 

[jda]

What UVs did you add? Is there actually a real UV diode? What is the spectrum? Most of the ones that I have seen are 405 and 415 which is not even really UV.

The 20K Radium and 14K Phoenix both put out UV from 350 to 399 in amounts equal to output from 500 to 700... this is a lot in both amount and width. I have never seen a diode that can do this, let alone a fixture with them.

It is pretty apparent that most UV reflects from the water surface and what little is around does not penetrate very far. However, most tanks are 24" inches or less deep, so they are definitely getting some UV in the tank for MH users. Does the coral need it - no idea. Does the coral handle it - it has to. The question is if it absorbs some of the energy and spits back out lower intensity light in the pruple/blue range, in which case it can help color, or if it just reflects the UV at the same intensity in which case we would never see it.

It is probably likely that most shallower corals (less than 6-10 feet) have to handle it in the ocean and they might be more likely to actually color up better with it... maybe not so much with the deeper stuff.

It is most likely that UV does very litte, the LED fixtures are adding no true UV anyway and the companies sold a few more units that added nothing to the coral in this area, but people bought the sales pitch.

 

[Aqualund]

Technically, you are right. The "UV" diodes above 400nm are not UV, but that is how they list them and sell them on their sites, as UV leds.

I purchased and use the Exotic 430nm led for my "violet" supplement: http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/exotic-hyper-violet-led-430nm/

but you can purchase sub-400nm leds here:
http://www.ledfedy.com/products/1-500w-led/3w-led/c-71/

They have anywhere from 365 to 415...I installed and tested 395's and 400's to see what they did, and they did make the green pigments fluoresce more. However, I wanted to be more specific in targeting chlorophyll so I just went to the 430's and stuck with that.

Honestly there are a lot of specific spectrums on a MH bulb that are not available on any available LEDS, but I dont think that makes it better, I lean more towards the fact that it is wasting energy on those unneeded spectrums.

We have studies that have been done that show the absorption and emission spectras for pigmentation and fluorescence of virtually every coral in the hobby, along with the same for the different chlorophyll(s). I imagine if we target led fixtures to accommodate those ranges, with the ability to individually adjust, we can more efficiently provide the same benefits of MH, with the lower operating cost of LED, which is better for the pocketbook.

 

[bernie lyons]

uneeded spectrum

uneeded spectrum

Technically, you are right. The "UV" diodes above 400nm are not UV, but that is how they list them and sell them on their sites, as UV leds.

I purchased and use the Exotic 430nm led for my "violet" supplement: http://www.clay-boa.com/exotic-hyper-violet-led-430nm/

but you can purchase sub-400nm leds here:
http://www.ledfedy.com/products/1-500w-led/3w-led/c-71/

They have anywhere from 365 to 415...I installed and tested 395's and 400's to see what they did, and they did make the green pigments fluoresce more. However, I wanted to be more specific in targeting chlorophyll so I just went to the 430's and stuck with that.

Honestly there are a lot of specific spectrums on a MH bulb that are not available on any available LEDS, but I dont think that makes it better, I lean more towards the fact that it is wasting energy on those unneeded spectrums.

We have studies that have been done that show the absorption and emission spectras for pigmentation and fluorescence of virtually every coral in the hobby, along with the same for the different chlorophyll(s). I imagine if we target led fixtures to accommodate those ranges, with the ability to individually adjust, we can more efficiently provide the same benefits of MH, with the lower operating cost of LED, which is better for the pocketbook.

Perhaps it's those so-called 'uneeded spectrums' that are the trick to satisfying "all" coral types for longevity, maintaining their growth and color without fading and or death?

 

[robsk]

Yeah JDA, the ones I added are not "true uv". They fall in that range of 405 to 415. j

That added range made a difference for me. Coral coloration became more vibrant after about a week of use.

And regardless of how a dealer labels it, it is a range that made a difference in my setup.

 

[Aqualund]

well right, that's my point. You can't compare an led fixture that only has 3 different led spectrums to MH and say that LEDS dont provide what corals need. Which everyone is quick to do. I would say that for an LED fixture to come close to providing the light needs for a wide variety of corals, it should have a minimum of 8 to 10 individually controllable channels of different spectrums starting at 428nm and going to 770nm.

I only classify "unneeded" spectrums as those which have not scientifically proven to register a measured benefit in absorption, emission, or nutritional

 

[michaellee64]

I've had MH and T-5's, and as both have provided great coral growth and coloration... so has Led's. I've ran, and still do run some CW & RB combos for over 1 1/2 years and have had great growth with softies, LPS and SPS. I also have a tank with a Chinese fixture that is primarily softies and with a few LPS and SPS... doing great. And I am also running a tank with full spectrum DIY fixtures and am enjoying awesome growth and coloration with that tank. While some of the SPS's have changed color under the LED's, They still look good none the less. I for one will not be going back to MH's!

 

[bernie lyons]

scientific ?

scientific ?

well right, that's my point. You can't compare an led fixture that only has 3 different led spectrums to MH and say that LEDS dont provide what corals need. Which everyone is quick to do. I would say that for an LED fixture to come close to providing the light needs for a wide variety of corals, it should have a minimum of 8 to 10 individually controllable channels of different spectrums starting at 428nm and going to 770nm.

I only classify "unneeded" spectrums as those which have not scientifically proven to register a measured benefit in absorption, emission, or nutritional

UMmmm, not questioning the fact of some documented stuff that has proven to be helpful in understanding corals better. However here is where I am coming from: Let's leave science out for the moment; Take a simple 100 gallone tank and put identical frags of various sps, lps, acan's ect, on each side of the tank .Run a good led fixture on one side than one 250watt MH 20k halide on the other and then see what happens. Coral growth on the 250 MH20K side is studily improving and with good coloration whereas the growth and color on the led fixture is slow and not as colorful - by the way the led fixture is of the 10+ leds of purple's,two reds and tons of blue's and whites mixed - adjustments for intensity have been done alone the way as well.. After two months of testing the MH 250 are showing consistant signe's of growth (thicker stock) and color on the sps and acan's.The lps under both lights is somewhat similar. However, the hard corals are certainly improving with the metal halides through and through ! Now how do you explain this scientifically ? just wondering...