Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[JPMagyar]

How does that compare to independent reflectors for the mh?

I don't have any articles or pictures I can point to, but I do have some information that may suggest an answer. First, I recall that Sanjay Joshi did some studies a while back and found that independent metal halide reflectors do a fantastic job of directing light. Second, I have owned PFO hoods (same as a Cebu Sun) and taken extensive readings under them. Third, I currently own Giesemann fixtures which employ individual reflectors around the metal halide sockets. My conclusion based on the sum of all these data points is that individual reflectors would increase the PAR in a limited area under the reflector which might be great if you want high and low light areas in your tank. On the other hand a Cebu Sun style hood with it's open reflector style really spreads all the light of all the bulbs quite evenly across your tank and allows the corals that lie in the mid-line under the hood to be totally surrounded by light on all sides.

Keep in mind that I do not have hard facts to prove this exactly but that is my general belief after playing with dozens and dozens of different lighting systems over the last decade or more. As always this is the internet and I am just a distant somewhat anonymous voice so do your homework before making any major choices . . . but obviously you're already doing that 'cuz you're asking questions here

I hope you'll share a build thread with whatever choices you make!

 

[Lavoisier]

I would recommend 250. Your selection of potential bulbs is greater including the Radium metal halide 20000k bulb. I believe it is hands down the best bulb for growing colorful SPS on the market today. If you go 175 then that bulb won't be an option. Plus 175 gets the job done, but it really is lacking in that extra punch you need for the seriously high light loving corals like Red Planet or Oregon Tort. Anyways just one guys 2 cents on the internet . . . did I mention I'm a French model in my spare time "Bonjour".

Woo! How did we miss the French model....:uhoh3:

 

[Johnseye]

Anyways just one guys 2 cents on the internet . . . did I mention I'm a French model in my spare time "Bonjour".

I'd believe it.

 

[SPotter]

How does that compare to independent reflectors for the mh?

David I think the Cebu Sun hoods are great for tanks that are not wide or deep dimension. Im not 100% sure of their coverage but when I was planning my tank out which is 36" I asked hamilton what they would suggest and they suggested the Cozumel Sun pendant that they make. They coverage is rated at 30x30 and I can say that might be a conservative estimate from them. I have 3 of them on my 96x36x24 tank and there are no dark spots! I think if you have a tank that is 24-30" wide the hood will be more than enough. If your tank is wider than that you might want to consider pendants instead. As Joe said, I have no hard facts as well...only my personal experience with my current set up.

 

[03sonicstang]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to order the Hamilton 72" 3 x 250 Watt 14K. I have a question into Marine Depot about the ballast as I want to be able to run a 20K Radium down the line

Cannot wait to be back into MH! Hoping this brings my tank back to its early glory!

 

[Aquatron]

Congrads with your new Cebu Down the road try a Radium in the center with 14s on the ends.....Radiums and 14s give a nice look. The quality of this fixture is really nice just wish they came in other color's like RED....lol

 

[SPotter]

Congrads with your new Cebu Down the road try a Radium in the center with 14s on the ends.....Radiums and 14s give a nice look. The quality of this fixture is really nice just wish they came in other color's like RED....lol

Im sure you will figure out a way to make that happen!!!!!

 

[Aquatron]

No Red While I did dump my first LEDs and always had MHs as part of the plan. My Cebu is only 36" so I can run LEDs on both end of the 8' DT. Need to see side by side workings myself since I have the size system to do it.

 

[ReeferSteve78]

I dump my leds from reef breeders 2 weeks ago and already noticing a big difference in colors on my sps and zoas. The question I have is I've read everyone saying that radiums 20k are the best but where can I get one that's DE 250w?

 

[muttley101]

I dump my leds from reef breeders 2 weeks ago and already noticing a big difference in colors on my sps and zoas. The question I have is I've read everyone saying that radiums 20k are the best but where can I get one that's DE 250w?

Don't think they come in a DE 250w.. Single mogul only. However, I heard the Phoenix 14k is nice in the DE category.

 

[DavidinGA]

I dump my leds from reef breeders 2 weeks ago and already noticing a big difference in colors on my sps and zoas. The question I have is I've read everyone saying that radiums 20k are the best but where can I get one that's DE 250w?

How long had you been using the leds?

 

[tmc1313]

Don't think they come in a DE 250w.. Single mogul only. However, I heard the Phoenix 14k is nice in the DE category.

Yes, if going DE, IME Phoenix 14k is the way to go. I've tried MANY DE bulbs and for my combination this is the one that looks the best and is working out the best (as far as growth and color). I'm also supplementing with two 48" reefbrite actinic strips in front and back of the halides. Phoenix is also known for very good par numbers. Some people say Phoenix will give you a windex look, but I don't get that at all with my ballasts and actinic combo. I will say as a stand alone bulb I don't think I would like is as much. Here is an overlay of a spectral plot of the SE Radium 20K and the DE Phoenix 14k.


image hosting over 5mb

 

[DavidinGA]

I dump my leds from reef breeders 2 weeks ago and already noticing a big difference in colors on my sps and zoas. The question I have is I've read everyone saying that radiums 20k are the best but where can I get one that's DE 250w?

Which MH setup/bulb/ballast did you get?

 

[Tweaked]

Order direct from Hamilton and get the m80s from the start. They will also give a great price on the bulbs if you ask.

 

[d2mini]

Order direct from Hamilton and get the m80s from the start. They will also give a great price on the bulbs if you ask.

Agreed. It's probably going to drop ship from them anyway.

BTW, does anyone know if you can run other bulbs besides the Radiums on the M80 ballasts?

 

[jda]

You can run any of them. Color will shift and life might go down.

 

[ptreef]

I don't have any articles or pictures I can point to, but I do have some information that may suggest an answer. First, I recall that Sanjay Joshi did some studies a while back and found that independent metal halide reflectors do a fantastic job of directing light. Second, I have owned PFO hoods (same as a Cebu Sun) and taken extensive readings under them. Third, I currently own Giesemann fixtures which employ individual reflectors around the metal halide sockets. My conclusion based on the sum of all these data points is that individual reflectors would increase the PAR in a limited area under the reflector which might be great if you want high and low light areas in your tank. On the other hand a Cebu Sun style hood with it's open reflector style really spreads all the light of all the bulbs quite evenly across your tank and allows the corals that lie in the mid-line under the hood to be totally surrounded by light on all sides.

Keep in mind that I do not have hard facts to prove this exactly but that is my general belief after playing with dozens and dozens of different lighting systems over the last decade or more. As always this is the internet and I am just a distant somewhat anonymous voice so do your homework before making any major choices . . . but obviously you're already doing that 'cuz you're asking questions here

I hope you'll share a build thread with whatever choices you make!

David I think the Cebu Sun hoods are great for tanks that are not wide or deep dimension. Im not 100% sure of their coverage but when I was planning my tank out which is 36" I asked hamilton what they would suggest and they suggested the Cozumel Sun pendant that they make. They coverage is rated at 30x30 and I can say that might be a conservative estimate from them. I have 3 of them on my 96x36x24 tank and there are no dark spots! I think if you have a tank that is 24-30" wide the hood will be more than enough. If your tank is wider than that you might want to consider pendants instead. As Joe said, I have no hard facts as well...only my personal experience with my current set up.

I kind of went with Hamilton light fixture for these very reasons... well spread of light. I have a 66x 36 x 24" 250g tank. Have acenter brace as well. Didn't want 3 MH's, Run SPS dominate tank and wanted great even spread. The 60" fixture fit the bill with 2 MH's and 4 t-5. I hav plenty of coverage and tons of par and sps grow and color great. sure a 3rd MH may help growth a tad, but more heat, more energy and more $$ to replace!

So i have great spread. I at one time tried 2 of the cozumel pendants and it worked ok, but 3 would have been better since no t-5's

 

[DavidinGA]

Order direct from Hamilton and get the m80s from the start. They will also give a great price on the bulbs if you ask.

So preliminary researching leads me to conclude these setups would be good....?


All in one route:

72" Cebu Sun 3x250w 10k plus 4 T5 actinics ~$1k

What brand/type mh ballast does this use?
How's the longterm quality on the T5/MH ballasts?
Are the reflectors as good as the individual pendants?
The big downside to this to me is the selling point - its an all-in-one which probably limits its flexibility and if something fails it hampers the whole unit as opposed to having three completely separate units....




Individual route:

Hamilton 250w HQI M80 ballasts $150/each ~ $450
Phoenix 14k 250w DE bulbs $45/ea ~$135
Sunlight Supply LumenMax 3 DE 250W HQI Reflector $150/ea ~$450
Did I miss anything there? Need any other cords/cables?

Total ~$1035

($885 if the reflectors are $100/ea instead of $150/ea)



From what I have read it sounds like I would get better performance from the individual route; true?

Is the Sunlight Supply LumenMax 3 DE 250W HQI Reflector worth the money over some other $100 reflector - Say a PFO 250 Watt Double Ended HQI Metal Halide Pendant for $96?

It would be a smig'n cheaper on the electric bill to not run the T5's (320w savings there), except that a M80 ballast actually over drives the bulbs meaning they run higher watts right?



As I consider MH I would add with my current setup (two Reefbreeder Photon 32's) I really don't like the bluish strong purple hue it gives (only fixed by running the whites higher than the blues which is not advisable they say). So I don't want to end up with a MH setup that gives that windex look; which is why I'm not really interested in running MH + Actinic T5's (as the T5's will just add to the purple hue, right?).



Thanks

 

[zoomonster]

Thing is with Hamilton they don't want to annoy resellers and their direct prices are significantly higher. I ordered my 72 Cebu from Live Rock and Reef for $1067 total and that was with eballasts. That's the best deal I could find at the time.

About the T5 bulb discussion that preceded this... right now I am running 4 80w blue plus bulbs that came from Hamilton (made in Germany but not sure by who). I tried two Giesemann pure actinics and hated them. The color is a very pale purple UV look and they are so much dimmer than the blue plus. I have quite a bit of stuff with a lot of actinic pop and they did little for it. I'm back to 4 blue plus and they are much brighter and really make things pop. The color and output just seem so much more like VHO actinics.

 

[DavidinGA]

Thoughts on this dirt cheap setup...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/MH-72-Metal-Halide-T5-LED-Aquarium-Light-Marine-Coral-Reef-6-ft-3x-250W-Bulbs-/111449285835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19f2e524cb