Wazzel
New member
Pack 'em in! Then you can tell the wife "sorry, but if we don't give them a bigger tank these corals could die!"![]()
Not so loud, the wife might hear.
Pack 'em in! Then you can tell the wife "sorry, but if we don't give them a bigger tank these corals could die!"![]()
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Exactly one year of growth under radium 20k 250 watt. Switched to led and didn't get 1/4 of that growth in 2 years and no where near the color. I was going through a gallon of 2 part every 1.5 - 2 weeks. Starting over now with radium 20k again. Have over 40 sps frags on the frag rack ready and they are coloring up amazingly.
I'd probably hate it as well if I didn't understand it. But with all the tanks I have it would take at least 10 250w MH fixtures.... Not an option. All of my tanks are lit by diy Led and are doing great.
Thank you for sharing, i've been down both roads as well. I will also admit its so much trickier for some reason to dail in the LED since they are manipulable unlike MH which is set it and forget it and adjust timing and height of the fixture. May you please explain in more detail of what fixtures you switched to, how long you ran them for and also if you tried to match the par values etc... Thanks in advanced.
Brad
I would agree with that. Its so hard to know where to go with LEDs. I used an apogee par meter to get as close as I could to par with the MH. In fact even at 100% I couldnt get the par levels I was getting. So I figured Id start somewhere in the middle and work my way up and it promptly bleached everything. I dont think a par meter works when transitioning to a new light source. From led to led or mh to mh, yea thats great but I think its to relative. There is no doubt they are powerful. I dont doubt they will grow coral. But growing and thriving are different to me. I went from 3 - 250 watt Lumenarc mini reflectors running 250 watt radiums 20k on ice cap electronic ballasts. It was pretty blue and I know they were not running at peak par on those ballasts. I switched to 5 panels of reef breeder leds. Almost completely covered my water surface with leds. Thats 275 3 watt leds. 60 degree optics to get par on the bottom of a 30" tank.
A few observations:
1. Even at 100% the tank looked dark and purple. First thing my wife said when she walked in was, wow it looks so dark.
2. Definition was poor. Probably more to do with the spectrum than anything, but it looked too sterile.
3. Growth on underside of coral stopped and died. I had great light wrap with the halides, not with the leds.
4. Disco effect. Even with so many leds so spread out mounted pretty high off the water you could still see it.
5. Color faded. Probably some to do with spectrum just not showing true colors as well. But it just wasnt the same. Colors faded and looked washed out. Its so hard to describe in works, but the tank lost its pop.
6. I had to run them over 12 hours a day to get any growth.
I ran those fixtures for almost 2 years. I wanted to give them an honest chance. I had myself convinced I was saving more in electricity than I was. I finally said to myself that was enough. I was looking through photos of my tank and was totally stunned how far it had fallen from what it was. It had been a while since I looked at the pictures and couldnt believe it. It was then I decided I have this tank to enjoy, not to try experiments with, not to try to save a few bucks, not to impress people that I have the newest technology. I enjoyed it when it looked like that. Thats what I want. I promptly got 3 lumenarc mini pendants with glass shields, 250 watt radium 20ks and ran them correctly on luxcore 250-400 ballasts at the HQI setting. Amazed how much whiter it was. It was a huge adjustment visually. When they first lit up I stood back and with a heavy sigh said "thats it". Thats what I was missing. It looks like the ocean now. Its only been about a month, but corals like goniopora are opening again with amazing red colors. My only surviving SPS from that picture, yellow humulus, is as stunning as ever. I've gotten over 40 SPS frags in the past few weeks and all of them are even more colorful than when I received them. I get that beautiful shimmer again. My definition is back. Its like looking at my tank in HD again. Ive got a long road ahead to get back to its former TOTM glory, but it will get there.
Im not saying LEDs are useless. I still use royal blues to supplement the MH and to extend the lighting period with sunrise and sunset since I only have the main lights on for 8 hours. And Im not at all saying this is gospel. Many have LED and love them. Im happy for you and that it works for you. It didnt for me for more than one reason. I guess my sole recommendation and moral of the story is make you tank look the way that makes you happy!
Those are some perfect reminders - if you like MH stick with them. Nothing else is MH, just like nothing else is T5 and nothing else is LED, and people who love MH will miss it while people who are indifferent or don't like it will welcome the alternatives. There are plenty of fantastic and terrible tanks that run every lighting type, so just stick with makes you happy and it isn't worth trying to save money if you don't like the look - after all the cheapest way to save money is to not have a tank at all. I am lucky that I prefer almost everything about current LEDs over MH, but that is just me and in 15 years I will probably be posting the the thread that is called "Is anyone thinking of dumping ____ and going back to LEDs?".
I agree. Usually the deciding factor is not any piece of kit, but the person running it.
Well the problem is the lights keep changing every year. So what worked good on a Gen 2 won't be the same on a Gen 3. Plus all tanks are different! Different animal stock with different requirements. And lights at different hights. Tanks of different shapes, sizes, and depts,Not to argue, because I understand what you are saying and agree to a point, but while this can be true, in many cases it is not, when we are discussing this particular subject.
There are too many instances of people who have switched back and forth with the same results to ignore the outcome.
Answer me this.
Let's talk about some of the units that let you share graphs/light schedules.
Many of these like Radions for instance have been out for what... 4-5 years now?
You would think that by now, there would have been enough experimenting and sharing back and forth to narrow it down to a few good schedules where pretty much everybody could have success, or at least determine that if they were not successful, their lighting is not the issue. Similar to Radium MH bulbs. You know that if you have Radiums over your tank and you still have problems with SPS, something else is wrong.
Why is this?
And although there are some decent LED lit tanks out there, is there anyone who was a long time and happy TOTM worthy MH/T5 user that switched to LEDs and saw an improvement, or at least stayed at the same level of growth, color, etc? I don't think I have heard of anyone. If there is, we all need to learn the details and copy them. haha
www.everydayreef.com
None of that should matter.Well the problem is the lights keep changing every year. So what worked good on a Gen 2 won't be the same on a Gen 3. Plus all tanks are different! Different animal stock with different requirements. And lights at different hights. Tanks of different shapes, sizes, and depts,
Not at all.I have seen you on here. And it seem you are just dead set against led and anyone who thinks different is wrong.
Not to argue, because I understand what you are saying and agree to a point, but while this can be true, in many cases it is not, when we are discussing this particular subject.
There are too many instances of people who have switched back and forth with the same results to ignore the outcome.
Answer me this.
Let's talk about some of the units that let you share graphs/light schedules.
Many of these like Radions for instance have been out for what... 4-5 years now?
You would think that by now, there would have been enough experimenting and sharing back and forth to narrow it down to a few good schedules where pretty much everybody could have success, or at least determine that if they were not successful, their lighting is not the issue. Similar to Radium MH bulbs. You know that if you have Radiums over your tank and you still have problems with SPS, something else is wrong.
Why is this?
And although there are some decent LED lit tanks out there, is there anyone who was a long time and happy TOTM worthy MH/T5 user that switched to LEDs and saw an improvement, or at least stayed at the same level of growth, color, etc? I don't think I have heard of anyone. If there is, we all need to learn the details and copy them. haha
www.everydayreef.com
All of this led me to change to a LED based lighting system in December 2012. During 2012, I made a vast research endevor to learn about LED fixtures and the systems that were running it. A LOT of bad reviews, complaints, and back to T5/MH histories are out there, but some good experiences too. I finally decided to give it a shot with AI VEGA Color fixtures which provide good coverage, a good color spectrum, easy control, flexibility and a fair price.
The 6 fixtures lie 10 inches above the water line running blues/purples at 100% of power, whites varying between 80~100%, and reds and greens at 70%. The lights cycle has 12 hours of duration starting at 8:00AM and ending at 8:00PM with an 1 hour ramp in rise and dusk.
Not to argue, because I understand what you are saying and agree to a point, but while this can be true, in many cases it is not, when we are discussing this particular subject.
There are too many instances of people who have switched back and forth with the same results to ignore the outcome.
Answer me this.
Let's talk about some of the units that let you share graphs/light schedules.
Many of these like Radions for instance have been out for what... 4-5 years now?
You would think that by now, there would have been enough experimenting and sharing back and forth to narrow it down to a few good schedules where pretty much everybody could have success, or at least determine that if they were not successful, their lighting is not the issue. Similar to Radium MH bulbs. You know that if you have Radiums over your tank and you still have problems with SPS, something else is wrong.
Why is this?
And although there are some decent LED lit tanks out there, is there anyone who was a long time and happy TOTM worthy MH/T5 user that switched to LEDs and saw an improvement, or at least stayed at the same level of growth, color, etc? I don't think I have heard of anyone. If there is, we all need to learn the details and copy them. haha
www.everydayreef.com
I am happy with my LED results and feel my tank is as good as any other one year old tank. If I did not feel this was a hostile crowd I would post pics here. It is not like I hide my tank, I have a tank thread where I keep pictures posted fairly regularly. Check it out if you like. FWIW my goal is not to rag on the other options, I think they are great alternatives. I had a successful MH/VHO tank for a few years.
Well it does matter if you understand leds. The led in the fixture it's self is are always changing, how much wattage is run to each led how it's made who made the led it all matters. And if MH was the end all be all then why do people supplement with T5HO shading or not enough actinic!? FYI I had shading problems with MH on a 36 in tank not enough light near the ends too! I'm getting way better coverage with 2 leds lights than MH . Also the problem with finding a setting that everyone agrees is the best is because with that kind of control nobody can agree. As in I think 40 across the board works great! The next guy will say no you have to run the red at 41 to get even better results the next guy says no 43 and on. You don't have that control with MH so you don't have the argument about it! It's all subjective. FYI I have seen where a person posted a pic of there led lit tank. You said it looked good but would look better and be healthier under MH. You can't prove that. I will believe scientific research and studies. This is all Opinions there is nothing based on facts and real scientific research here.None of that should matter.
Like I said, pretty much anyone can put a Radium MH over their tank and get good results.
If you don't, you need to look at something other than your lighting.
For different size tanks, MH gives you a few choices of wattage, the number of bulbs, and the style reflector. Not many variables and pretty easy to figure out what you need.
As far as the fixtures constantly changing, that doesn't matter either.
I should be able to find a graph for a Gen 1 Radion or Mitra that will give me excellent results. But I can't. Why?
Not at all.
If you really have seen me on here, you've seen my well documented results of using both long term and my experience with both.
But I also continue to watch because I do think there is a future in LED.
And you should also have seen me say that the biggest issue is not with the technology itself, but with the amount of light wrap and the amount of fixtures that are really needed vs what was originally though or touted by the manufacturers.
www.everydayreef.com