Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

Right now the tank is very blue, but the Anemones love it, as do most of my LPS. The only coral I really have issues with is SPS.

I consistently found over the past 4 years that LPS did the best under LED. The big thing I noticed was they retained their coloration much better than SPS. Many of my SPS would completely change color or even brown-out for awhile under LED. It's only been a week since I went back to MH but I'm already seeing many SPS transforming their colors indicative to where they were at time of purchase to include considerable new growth tips.
 
Zukari if the LED lights grew SPS well in your corner tank they aren't the problem.

Please note, I said that the coverage is now the issue. For my 125 to be properly lit by LED I would need to purchase more Hydra 52s. I do not doubt that with more lights I would have success again.

The issue is I don't want to shell out that kind of money for 2-3 more lights when my current ones are already pushing 3-4 years of age. Thankfully AI has had no issue replacing the boards for two of the lights as they have already failed (again, replaced for free so I am not upset about this).

I will likely set my 90g back up and use hydras on it once more to prove that these lights can grow and color up SPS - you just need to have the correct coverage. I miss halides and the ease of use they offer. Please do not think that I doubt the ability of LEDs ... I only doubt the manufactures "36x36" inch coverage maps. The 90g is quite small due to its shape, allowing two of these lights to work beautifully.
 
I consistently found over the past 4 years that LPS did the best under LED. The big thing I noticed was they retained their coloration much better than SPS. Many of my SPS would completely change color or even brown-out for awhile under LED. It's only been a week since I went back to MH but I'm already seeing many SPS transforming their colors indicative to where they were at time of purchase to include considerable new growth tips.

Out of interest what size tank do you have? What LEDs did you use? What spectrum did you run? And how many fixtures did you have?
 
I'd like to say as I have been fallowing this thread that I have a 190g reef tank and its dimensions are 60x27x27 and have 6 hydra 52 LEDs and 4 t-5 which I just added and the tank has been up for a couple months before its 2 yr anniversary. I have a hard time finding the sweet spot with lighting, alk, temp. But I have added corals and they have browned out and I have nit at 0 and phos at 0 and run gfo + bio pellets. I also bought a par meter and have learned to turn my lights down as I was getting 300 or more par. I have the parlor down to 160 and 4 hrs a day t-5 are on and hit 200 or 230. I'm waiting to see a difference in color. The reason I turned them down was the sps were growing away from my lights instead of toward the lights.
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Not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but our pH has shot up since moving off LED and onto MH. Here is a thread recently started by another member who noticed the same thing but moving to T5.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2545619

It was mentioned earlier in this thread, pretty far back I think, and I noticed it as well when moving from LED to T5. There's also someone on Nano Reef that noticed the PH rise.
 
Actually, an increase in photosynthesis would increase ph and decrease CO2. On the cellular level, the coral would retain the resulting O2, while the algae in the rest of the aquarium would release the O2 into solution. That would infer the new lighting system is more capable of propagating algae than the previous. That would lead me to suspect insufficient spectrum and/or output levels in the previous.
 
Out of interest what size tank do you have? What LEDs did you use? What spectrum did you run? And how many fixtures did you have?

To answer your question:

Prior to our current 450G, we had a 180G that I had done a DIY LED lighting setup for. It worked excellent and overall, the coral responded well. By "œoverall", we found quite often the coloration of purchased corals would change, not dramatically, but definitely different. LPS always did well as did stylo and monti. There are a couple of shots included that shows the fixture over the 180 and then the tank just prior to migrating to the 450 in late 2014. Prior to setting up the 450, I consulted with Mike from Rapid LED (who I also purchased the components from for my 180 build) regarding recommendations for the 450. He suggested the Dual Aurora Puck solution (basically an EcoTech Radion XR30 knock off) and said for our size tank we should get 4. So that's what I did. By the time this past summer arrived, I felt I wasn't getting the coverage needed, so added two additional Royal Blue, with a bit of white, emitters to the fixture (pics included). This helped, and after testing for PAR with our Seneye, I confirmed we could easily get 300 on the sand bed (34") if we wanted. You can use the Seneye to assist in adjusting your LEDs for the spectrum and output. The problem continued to be SPS response and coloring. We had several SPS brownout or just not grow. I finally removed the 80 degree TIR EcoTech Radion lenses that the Auroras come with and things began to improve. The light seemed more evenly spread and hot spots diminished. In order to keep the PAR up though, I obviously had to push the drivers harder which was not an issue.

One very drastic difference between the 180 and 450 was simply the LED density over the tank. The 180 had much better density and even coverage. This is something that is really coming to light in these forum threads and postings. I do believe LED work, but you need complete coverage and with that comes $$$! Our 450 is 8' long with 30" front to back, so I'm very convinced we would have needed more than recommended. Secondly, I'm not totally convinced on the spectrum output. It's only been a week and a half since moving to MH, but things have been changing at a very rapid pace for the good. I still have 4 "“ Aurora Dual Puck setups that are only a year old, so I'm thinking of building a hybrid T5/LED solution where the T5s primarily hit the shallower areas of the tank with the LEDs driving down to the sand bed closer to the front. This should provide the spectrum and shimmer, the best of both world. We'll see"¦
 

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Increased amounts of CO2 released by the symbiotic algae in the coral? Interesting, regardless.

Makes sense actually. Photosynthesis takes CO2 and converts to O2. CO2 lowers pH. With new lighting system the photosynthesis activity is greater which means more CO2 absorbed and more O2 expelled so pH goes up.

When using a lighting system that greatly reduces shadowing more light hits the coral so more photosynthesis is occurring.
 
I posted this in another thread, but thought I would share it here:

At 2PM today my MH came on and the pH was 8.18. Before that it was just the 4 Super Actinics in each of the Hamilton Cebu Sun 48" Dual 400W 14K MH fixtures since 11AM. It is now 5:09PM, essentially 3 hours later. The pH is now 8.31 (make that 8.32 since I originally posted it). I never had this drastic of a pH jump with LEDs, EVER! I'm very impressed with the photosynthetic activity going on since going to MH.
 
@AZRippster - Halides do pack a punch, man. I had to make a choice between packing three more 250W to gain some coverage in my 300 or switch back over LEDs. Did the latter for at least a while, and I'm garnering some good growth again. I'll work on tweaking the spectrum a bit on the fixtures (break out the old soldering iron), but what the heck, it's still a hobby.
Hope your adventures are treating you well out in SV, man. Tell the Huachucas I said hi...I still miss hiking (and my house) out there.
Cheers,
Ray
 
Hey Ray,

Yeah, you remember the 80's. I was burning MH back then, 175s, but since getting back into it moved to LED. Now I feel at least with my last LED build, I wasted a year of my life. Good to hear from ya!

Russ
 
Good hearing from you, too, Russ!
I still have fond memories - fresh off of reading A. Thiel's treatise - of my, umm, "discussion" with Bob G. about the virtues of halide lighting when I built my first fixture back in the 80's. Didn't I get my first Iwasaki Eye 6500K from you back then sometime, too?
Heh!
Hope your adventures are still treating you well, old friend. Tell everybody I said hi!
Ray
 
I don't see many of the old clan anymore, but then again they are mostly up in Tucson. Bob G. is still around and still full swing in the hobby. He can often be found in Fishy Bizness in Tucson. Still maintains his website about the hobby too. Yeah, I think you did get those Iwasaki from me. They were bleeding edge at the time. I still have like 4 6500 Venture 175 lamps brand new. Those were the shiz back then too. Hey, whenever you head back this way for a visit, drop me a PM. Take care
 
Careful with royal blue supplementation, I run T5 and halide and was adding royal blue about 20 leds in a puck design, some of my SPS didnt like it, so i turned it off and they are happy again, i had it on a very low setting. I often wonder rather than the common mistake of intensity , are some corals actually worse when led supplementing ?
 
This is copy of a post in the ATI thread, but I figured it was relevant to the discussion here. The main point is that even at very low levels (35%) I found that running LEDs for too many hours was detrimental to some color and health . . . .

So I'm about 4 months into using the ATI LED Powermodule and I feel I have seen some interesting results both positive and negative. Overall I feel the colors in my tank are outstanding, but I was struggling with getting reds and pinks to really pop, plus my stylophora that was directly under an LED cluster was "burning" on the top, and my strawberry shortcake was brown in one small area where it lay under an LED cluster, and I was having trouble with diatoms on my sand, and I felt my OT (Oregon Tort) was ever so slightly paler than I like. I therefore turned the LEDs off except for 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the evening. I had been running them 14 hours but only at 35% peak power. I didn't think they would have much effect at such low power.

It has now been a month without fulltime LED and I have noted several changes all for the better.

1) The brown area on the strawberry shortcake is almost all gone and the colony is regaining full color.
2) My purple humilis which was pale purple is turning radiant and deep purple.
3) My OT is regaining a deeper blue.
4) The pink birdsnest is turning to a glowing pink and a red coral that I have been growing from a tiny frag is suddenly changing from just dull brick red to a bright glowing red.
5) The top of the stylophora is healing.
6) A deep water suharsoi that was green is turning glowing white with radiant yellow tips.
7) A coral that was green with blue tips lost the blue tip but is now regaining the blue tips.
8) The diatoms on my sand are gone.
9) My purple efflo was dull purple and brown in the center and is now returning to all purple throughout.

Bottom line: 14 hours of LED light at 35% peak power was not good for some of my coral coloration. If I had to guess I would say that PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) is not as harmless as folks think. Although the LED looks dim to our eye the coral is feeling a firehose of photons that are turned on and off and this negatively impacts some zoox.

Not scientific at all just the observations of a long time aquarist, and before everyone gets all in a huff let me just add, I'm not putting anyone elses stuff down, I'm just making my observations and thoughts known to the forum AND I would note that Lunar (K. Tryc), arguably the greatest colorful coral grower of our day, had the exact same observation regarding the exact same fixture and even went so far as to remove the fixture and go back to a pure T5 setup. In other words please don't look at my comments as a put down. They are just one aquarists unscientific observation, so use that as any other piece of internet trivia with a proverbial "grain of salt".

Will try to get some photos later :D

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This is copy of a post in the ATI thread, but I figured it was relevant to the discussion here. The main point is that even at very low levels (35%) I found that running LEDs for too many hours was detrimental to some color and health . . . .



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I guess my 14 hour DIY actinic strip(40 LEDs over 48") might be a bit much?
 
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