Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[d2mini]

Well you can create an amazing reef tank in one day if you go out and buy full colonies....if you're growing from frags then it will definitely take time.
"persevere" was probably the wrong choice of word by me. I guess an analogy would be when iPods came out, some people embraced them and in doing so had to learn how to download music, create playlists, transfer files etc. Other people sat there thinking it's too much effort, I'll stick with the proven Walkman/Discman, despite the obvious benefits of technological advances. Probably not the best analogy but you get where I'm going with it.
I would say with most technology there is more to learn, you buy a smart TV v's an old CRT TV, an Audi R6 v's a Holden Barina, etc etc. but again once you have learned to use the technology the benefits are obvious.

I actually think that's a horrible analogy. :lol:
I've been one to jump on new tech with lots of things, including iPods... not once did I ever want to go back to the old tech.
Except with reef tank lighting.



Oh, and skimmers too... almost forgot about that.

 

[Microcosmos]

ABSOLUTELY yes is my answer to the OP. Here is my brief saga with LEDs (with pics loaded to Tapatalk): http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24141720

 

[C.Eymann]

His tank convinced me to buy Ecoxotic Cannons:facepalm: Then the Cannons didn't get the job done, and were replaced by T5s.

His tank was pretty stunning but I'm not sure what all was going on there. He started up the tank in December 2010, got Zeovit dream tank on June 7 2011, and his last post here was June 11th 2011. His last post on Zeovit's forum was the June 22 2011. About 7 months for that tank, then he disapeared, not sure if it was just a staged tank or what.

maybe using HGH? I know there is a debate whether that actually works or not but I know that some European sps keepers swear by it, particularly Italians.

 

[mhucasey]

maybe using HGH? I know there is a debate whether that actually works or not but I know that some European sps keepers swear by it, particularly Italians.

Looking back on his progression shots in his video he only has colonies, never a frag. I don't see definitive growth from any particular piece.

 

[GroktheCube]

maybe using HGH? I know there is a debate whether that actually works or not but I know that some European sps keepers swear by it, particularly Italians.

I don't see how it could possibly help. Not only is it biologically inactive in corals (to the best of my knowledge), it's also a very "fragile" protein that easily denatures. I imagine that exposure to salt water would render it inert (even in humans) very quickly. There's a reason it's so expensive from the pharmacy. It's difficult to produce and transport, and has a very short shelf life. Patients who require it need to keep it refrigerated at all times, and even stored that way, it's only usable for a month at the very most.

Most of the proteins in whey are pretty similar to HGH in terms of overall size molecular weight. If there is some benefit associated to HGH, I imagine that a comparable quantity of whey would provide similar benefits.

 

[C.Eymann]

I don't see how it could possibly help. Not only is it biologically inactive in corals (to the best of my knowledge), it's also a very "fragile" protein that easily denatures. I imagine that exposure to salt water would render it inert (even in humans) very quickly. There's a reason it's so expensive from the pharmacy. It's difficult to produce and transport, and has a very short shelf life. Patients who require it need to keep it refrigerated at all times, and even stored that way, it's only usable for a month at the very most.

Most of the proteins in whey are pretty similar to HGH in terms of overall size molecular weight. If there is some benefit associated to HGH, I imagine that a comparable quantity of whey would provide similar benefits.

Well I never gave my opinion if it worked or not, because I don't know alot about it, but back when I was super into the hobby a few years ago before my last tank crashed HGH was creating a big buzz in the sps community. I never really looked much into it.
I remember seeing it discussed in this thread in my lurking days
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=971190&pp=25&page=4

 

[ifarmer]

People are doing this every day. Going from led to either t5 or mh.
Alot of folks do have luck but a lot of advanced reefers all went back (after using led for a year) to t5/ or mh .

 

[kenpau]

People are doing this every day. Going from led to either t5 or mh.
Alot of folks do have luck but a lot of advanced reefers all went back (after using led for a year) to t5/ or mh .

I wouldn't call it 'luck', just that the people that have got good results with LEDs have applied them correctly, the people that have gone back haven't got something right, generally this means either:-

1. Not enough fixtures

2. Wrong colour spectrum/wrong settings

3. Cheap LEDs not up to the task.


Or a combination of above.

 

[RobTheReefer]

I wouldn't call it 'luck', just that the people that have got good results with LEDs have applied them correctly, the people that have gone back haven't got something right, generally this means either:-

1. Not enough fixtures

2. Wrong colour spectrum/wrong settings

3. Cheap LEDs not up to the task.


Or a combination of above.

Yeah, I think you nailed it.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

A lot of people are doing LED/T5.

Similar to how people supplement halides with T5.

I know I liked the look of my tank a lot more when I supplemented my halides with either VHO or actinic blue LED's. I don't think it's a big deal that LED's do better when supplemented as well. We've been mixing lighting types for years.

 

[d2mini]

I wouldn't call it 'luck', just that the people that have got good results with LEDs have applied them correctly, the people that have gone back haven't got something right, generally this means either:-

1. Not enough fixtures

2. Wrong colour spectrum/wrong settings

3. Cheap LEDs not up to the task.


Or a combination of above.

And the fact that "good results" means different things to different people.

 

[GroktheCube]

BRS posted up their next video today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTuj5MJCgpc&list=PLBaMLrfToJyybUT18OE3fMomFb9XU0ffC&index=22

They ended up going with Hamilton T5 retros and 2 Kessil AP700s installed in their canopy.

 

[mhucasey]

BRS posted up their next video today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTuj5MJCgpc&list=PLBaMLrfToJyybUT18OE3fMomFb9XU0ffC&index=22

They ended up going with Hamilton T5 retros and 2 Kessil AP700s installed in their canopy.

Based on their very good series of videos, this seems like a very sound choice.

 

[Settings]

I've said this before, but look back at all the RTOM tanks! Notice the lack of LEDs. Enough said.

 

[RobTheReefer]

BRS posted up their next video today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTuj5MJCgpc&list=PLBaMLrfToJyybUT18OE3fMomFb9XU0ffC&index=22

They ended up going with Hamilton T5 retros and 2 Kessil AP700s installed in their canopy.

I'm not surprised. It was a rocky start for me but I love my AP700 now. I'm also not surprised that brs is sold out. :twitch:

 

[ReefCowboy]

The host says "no heat" in this option?. 4x 80W t5 bulbs and two led fixtures with 185W each with their backs against that canopy with no fans?

 

[scrapz]

Metal halide and T5 are proven already to work independently and grow every type of coral under it successfully. Most of the successful SPS grown tanks under LEDs are always some sort of hybrid. LED has definitely gotten better in the last 2-3 years I've been away but it's still, IMO, not hit it's peak.

From a cost perspective. What what I've monitored, the initial investment is still way too high to properly cover a packed SPS tank. Sure, it'll pay for itself in 5 years granted it doesn't break before then. If it does break, how much will it cost to repair. IMO, anyone who has the money to deck out a large tank in pure LEDs are probably the people who would just pay for a new fixture.

If we took 3 identical frags and grew them out under each type of lighting for a year then placed them in each tank and took pictures, which would look best? I'd go out on a limb and say the results would be T5, then MH and LEDS being dead last.

Anyways, I'm using all 3 techs in my next tank, should be interesting to see what type of colors I'll be able to achieve.

 

[kenpau]

LEDs most definitely will grow coral as well as T5 or MH, however at a significant financial outlay.
Although the cost is obviously a downside it shouldn't be used to disregard the effectiveness of LEDs.
If someone wants to pay $300 for a MH fixture and someone else wants to pay $3000 for the equivalent output in LEDs to achieve the same result then that's personal choice, good quality LED fixtures are expensive but they do work.
I'd say the main reason 99% of TOTM is T5 or MH is for this reason. My LED/T5 Hybrid cost $3500, people might think I'm crazy but I'd rather pay out for a good quality LED fixture than run MH, just my personal preference.

 

[karimwassef]

LED is only expensive because it hasn't reached the scale of other lighting methods outside the hobby. The core technology isn't inherently more expensive if you count PAR/purchase cost.

It's getting there. As LEDs replace car headlights, street and building lights, the technology and cost will change significantly. We tend to inherit those effects in the hobby. Scale changes cost significantly. It's why a computer pad that represents the computing horsepower of an 80s supercomputer now cost $280 on Black Friday and fits in your palm, but there are no CRT tube TVs for sale.

The real cost of LED is probably ~$0.50/W for a low density build (takes up a large fixture area) to $1/W for high density build.

So a 180W high density build should cost the maker ~$200 to build. The fact that they can sell it for $800 is based on market forces. All will change- time is the great equalizer.

 

[scrapz]

Led definitely can grow coral, not debating that. Corals also look best under pure blue Led without question.

I just get tired of hearing how cost effective it is in the long run when people havent even owned the fixture for 5+ years. There's nothing wrong with spending big money on a fancy led but making false claims isn't helpful to the community either. IIRC didnt a certain gen of AI's blue pucks just die after 2 years of use? It'lll get there eventually and when it does, I'll be swapping over completely, just not yet