Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

Exactly! Everything is moving towards LED technology.
Even getting a good flashlight that uses a bulb is hard. Home lighting is moving to LED and so are industrial lights. At some point the price for MH will sky rocket as the manufacturing base diminishes and long before you get to that point the companies that make MH equipment for Reef tanks will probably be only making and selling LED fixtures.

The pain comes when you have massive amounts of coral that have grown under MH and you find yourself in a posistion were you have to switch. It's better to start supplementing with LEDs now and wean them off the MH slowly than to one day find the bulbs etc are impossible to buy and have to make a sudden change. The technology is only going to get better with LEDs in terms of effiecency and wavelength choices. Your still going to need to figure out what works for you and from what I am seeing there is already enough combinations to grow coral just fine.

I think this is four straight years I've been hearing this. Giesemann and Pacific Sun, among others, have been actually creating and releasing new T5 bulbs in that time. Why? Because the corals do best under them.

The way you are approaching this is like an engineer explaining how to create great art. I'm an Engineer myself, so I know. I know your head and heart are in the right place, but I don't put the thousands of dollars worth of my coral babies through "pain" just because some numbers look good on paper.

Good luck proving us all wrong, but you will need to do that with pictures and evidence of SPS corals of all colors growing and thriving under an LED light long term.
 
Wait. I thought the energy savings were minuscule. ;)


Have you actually asked them? My impression is that our local retailers don't sell much in the way of high end lighting. I suppose having Radions over the tank might sell lots of cheap(ish) Orbit Marine units.

I have no idea why people think energy savings are miniscule unless they have more money than brains. Once you factor in chillers/fans that cost can rise by $20 per month if not more. Even if you don't need a chiller, you still don't want that heat output of metal halide.
 
I would still like to go LEP one day , supplemented they are ok , but a 10 or 14k bulb and it would be game on. U can run them at 50% and get good colour but not much of a power saving. They have 500w versions? One of the @ 250w over a 60 cube maybe
 
I have no idea why people think energy savings are miniscule unless they have more money than brains. Once you factor in chillers/fans that cost can rise by $20 per month if not more. Even if you don't need a chiller, you still don't want that heat output of metal halide.

well concidering how many led's you need to get proper coverage and the heaters to make up for the lack of heat it all equals out fairly close
 
I have no idea why people think energy savings are miniscule unless they have more money than brains. Once you factor in chillers/fans that cost can rise by $20 per month if not more. Even if you don't need a chiller, you still don't want that heat output of metal halide.

When you look at just the lighting system power usage it is really not much differencen in power consumption. You have to take into account it takes more led units and you have to run them longer than MH.
 
I have no idea why people think energy savings are miniscule unless they have more money than brains. Once you factor in chillers/fans that cost can rise by $20 per month if not more. Even if you don't need a chiller, you still don't want that heat output of metal halide.

Wow, that is one ignorant statement right there. My heater runs way less since I went back to metal halide. I have seen virtually no difference in my electric bill.
 
from dumping LEDs and going to MH, i saw a $50 increase per month in the summer and about $25 in the winter. imo, it cost more to run MH. however, i have hamilton ballasts from 1999 that still work fine and with a new bulb is like new. my LEDs started failing after a year. putting electronics over salt water doesn't make sense to me anymore!!! how many people still using gen 1 radion?
 
I have no idea why people think energy savings are miniscule unless they have more money than brains. Once you factor in chillers/fans that cost can rise by $20 per month if not more. Even if you don't need a chiller, you still don't want that heat output of metal halide.
If only things were so cut and dry...

Imo with all things being equal, discussing electrical cost a smaller tank is usually better off with leds and a larger one is better off with mh. Simply because a larger volume of water can more easily cope with the excess heat from mh without needing a chiller.
 
Meh it's all opinion, every bit of it. Regardless of how much you THINK you are an expert on how things look, or setups, it's your opinion, none of it is fact.

I've ran LED's for years. My tanks have always done well. They did better with LED then they did with the 250w orbit fixture I had before that. I personally prefer the slightly dimmer look and more blueish/purple with led's then MH, but again, that's my opinion. My new big tank will be all reef lab 12 up pucks as well, and I just purchased a reefbreeders v2 photon which has some amazing color to it as well.

I've also got friends that have been highly successful with MH as well too. Their tanks look great, but I prefer to have the control of my color/intensity at every point of the day, not just on/off. Again, that's an opinion of mine, not a fact.

This thread is really just the biggest fanboy battle at the urinal going on the forum atm. I don't know why anybody has such a desire to change peoples opinions one way or the other. Let each have their opinion and move on.
 
Meh it's all opinion, every bit of it.
In that line of reasoning:
In fact, we should ask ourselves a broader question. Is our quest for more color misguided? May we reach a point where our quest for more color compromises the long-term health of these corals? There are additives available to kill and reduce zooxanthallae in corals to unmask more color pigmentation. ULNS (ultra low nutrient systems) are the latest hot thing because browned out corals are undesirable. Browned out? A coral with a wealth of brown is a coral with a lot of symbiotic zooxanthellae. When corals undergo stress, they brown out. That means they are loading up on the symbionts that feed them and give them the nutrients to recover and grow.

If anything should be an indicator of health, it should be growth. Anyone veteran hobbyist will tell you corals calcify faster under lower kelvin bulbs. An Iwasaki 6,500K metal halide grows corals faster than a Radium bulb of equivalent wattage. And let's compare coral colors to growth. Some of the notable slow growing acropora are the blue hoeksemai, torts and purple monster. There seems to be a discrepancy between growth and color. A purple monster grows pretty fast under an Iwasaki, but its not going to be a deep purple.

Perhaps we lose growth, hardiness and stress tolerance when pushing towards excessive pigment expression and photo-inhibition. Again, this may not be wrong. The hobby places immense value on coral color. So it may just be a double edged sword. You should illuminate your tank the way you want. But don't make the mistake of believing your goals and desires should be the "œstandard" that others should be compared against. It's a lot more fun and engaging to discuss a diversity of metrics for success in reef aquariums.

June 26 2013, Mark van der Wal

Oldie but goodie.. ;)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dread240 View Post
Meh it's all opinion, every bit of it.

In that line of reasoning:

Quote:
In fact, we should ask ourselves a broader question. Is our quest for more color misguided? May we reach a point where our quest for more color compromises the long-term health of these corals? There are additives available to kill and reduce zooxanthallae in corals to unmask more color pigmentation. ULNS (ultra low nutrient systems) are the latest hot thing because browned out corals are undesirable. Browned out? A coral with a wealth of brown is a coral with a lot of symbiotic zooxanthellae. When corals undergo stress, they brown out. That means they are loading up on the symbionts that feed them and give them the nutrients to recover and grow.

If anything should be an indicator of health, it should be growth. Anyone veteran hobbyist will tell you corals calcify faster under lower kelvin bulbs. An Iwasaki 6,500K metal halide grows corals faster than a Radium bulb of equivalent wattage. And let's compare coral colors to growth. Some of the notable slow growing acropora are the blue hoeksemai, torts and purple monster. There seems to be a discrepancy between growth and color. A purple monster grows pretty fast under an Iwasaki, but its not going to be a deep purple.

Perhaps we lose growth, hardiness and stress tolerance when pushing towards excessive pigment expression and photo-inhibition. Again, this may not be wrong. The hobby places immense value on coral color. So it may just be a double edged sword. You should illuminate your tank the way you want. But don't make the mistake of believing your goals and desires should be the "œstandard" that others should be compared against. It's a lot more fun and engaging to discuss a diversity of metrics for success in reef aquariums.

June 26 2013, Mark van der Wal

Oldie but goodie..

Very true. None of our tanks look like wild reefs anyway.
 
Why are LED users in this thread promoting LED?

Because the question
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
goes both ways. Some of us use LED and do not plan on switching to something else. Talking about our success with LED and our intention to continue using them answers the questions just like those who are unhappy and share their experience to switch.

...and because LEDs do work.
 
Here are pictures of the 2 frags that I am doing my experiment with.

The first is the frag under the MH. The color is MUCH easier to see and photograph on this side of the tank. The second is the one under the LED's. You can see that everything looks more purple. The colors are actually much closer to the other one.

MH Frag



LED Frag

 
Back
Top