Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

[oreo57]

News flash...T5 will always be more energy efficient than T12, that is one of the reasons it replaced T12.

Tell jda that, not me..

so it takes 2 T5s to equal a VHO

It takes 2.5W of t12VHO to equal 1 W of t5

 

[sirreal63]

Growing healthy corals isn't always about energy efficiency. I prefer T5 to T12 as a main light but for actintics the T12 VHO still rules. I have yet to see any other bulb or light source with the same look. If you have never used them, you would never know.

 

[oreo57]

Growing healthy corals isn't always about energy efficiency. I prefer T5 to T12 as a main light but for actintics the T12 VHO still rules. I have yet to see any other bulb or light source with the same look. If you have never used them, you would never know.

(NOTE: none of this has anything to do w/ usability.. separate subject.. it just "is what it is".)

did you miss this part??? but thanks for the opinion..

Again we get the look = healthy part??? Mostly but not always true.. Corals can "look" substandard in coloration but are quite healthy..

 

[sirreal63]

Corals can "look" substandard in coloration but are quite healthy..

The ocean has plenty of proof of that. I am curious if you even have a reef tank? You certainly have the ability to look up specs and are a Whiz with Google. I am wondering if all of your knowledge translates into a nice tank as well?

Not picking on you, just curious. Having a nice tank is certainly not required here, many of us are between tanks but still share our years of experience.

 

[DavidinGA]

VHO is less efficient than HO..

http://www.t5fixtures.com/ho-vs-vho-t5-fixtures/








Oh sooo close...

2 t5HO's 10000lumens.. 1 T5VHO 7200 lumens..off by 39%...

Same spectrum's, PAR will be the same ratio..

Granted all generalizations..

Wow vho ballasts only last 6 months???

 

[AZRippster]

Wow vho ballasts only last 6 months???

That doesn't make sense. I had them running MUCH longer than that in the '80s and '90s.

 

[power boat jim]

I turned a radion on once will it was sitting face down on my chair and it burnt 11 holes in my chair in about 10 seconds

I have burned my wrist on the lenses also. It strange that they are so hot but an inch or so away there is so little heat.

 

[oreo57]

Wow vho ballasts only last 6 months???

I was surprised by that statement as well. The article is "greenhouse" centric so there is that.
And as I was corrected on earlier, T5VHO, not T12..

http://www.coralvue.com/icecap-660-vho-ballast-120vac-60hz

One does have to wonder when this:

Fully Repairable

is a primary selling point..

That doesn't make sense. I had them running MUCH longer than that in the '80s and '90s.

Well it isn't the 80-90's anymore.. Cheap Chinese power caps..

 

[shred5]

I'm an electrical engineer too and while I agree that photons are photons, the biological response to spectrum intensity distribution is not. The same goes for the directional nature of the light sources- single source vs multiple directional sources.

I know you're trying not to sound like a know it all, but laughing at people isn't exactly supportive of different ideas.

I'm not taking a side because I think the light sources compliment each other, but they're not the same.

In terms of historical stances, I personally think HQI double ended and mogul designs are not equivalent either. There's room enough in the discussion for everyone to disagree

Agreed.. I think people do not think of the coral in terms of light and how they react with proteins and pigments, they just think of the zooxanthellae and photosynthesis with chlorophyll.
If all we thought about was chlorophyll and that was the only factor but it aint.

 

[oreo57]

they just think of the zooxanthellae and photosynthesis with chlorophyll.

That would be a mistake..

All reef-forming corals depend on the photosynthesis performed by their algal symbiont, and such corals are therefore restricted to the photic zone. The intensity of light in this zone declines over several orders of magnitude—from high and damaging levels at the surface to extreme shade conditions at the lower limit1. The ability of corals to tolerate this range implies effective mechanisms for light acclimation and adaptation2. Here we show that the fluorescent pigments3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 (FPs) of corals provide a photobiological system for regulating the light environment of coral host tissue. Previous studies have suggested that under low light, FPs may enhance light availability4, 5. We now report that in excessive sunlight FPs are photoprotective; they achieve this by dissipating excess energy at wavelengths of low photosynthetic activity, as well as by reflecting of visible and infrared light by FP-containing chromatophores. We also show that FPs enhance the resistance to mass bleaching of corals during periods of heat stress, which has implications for the effect of environmental stress on the diversity of reef-building corals, such as enhanced survival of a broad range of corals allowing maintenance of habitat diversity.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v408/n6814/full/408850a0.html#B7
http://pages.uoregon.edu/svetlana/FEBSJ.pdf

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/revealed-why-some-corals-are-more-colourful-others

Acropora coral shows blue colours in response to mechanical damage. Wiedenmann / D'Angelo, Author provided

 

[gus6464]

The ocean has plenty of proof of that. I am curious if you even have a reef tank? You certainly have the ability to look up specs and are a Whiz with Google. I am wondering if all of your knowledge translates into a nice tank as well?

Not picking on you, just curious. Having a nice tank is certainly not required here, many of us are between tanks but still share our years of experience.

 

[mhucasey]

I don't think asking to see evidence of your success is some kind of ridiculous request. I look through the post history for everyone who makes claims here looking for pictures, opinions, past declarations.

If i see page after page of posts about DIY LEDs, but no posts with pictures of an aquarium, all that tells me is that the person may be an expert on creating light with LEDs. Sorry, but I need evidence that corals grow well under that light to believe.

 

[Wazzel]

Wow vho ballasts only last 6 months???

Mine had 6 years of operation on it when I sold it.

 

[sirreal63]

That may be 6 months for the T5 VHO ballast, the T12 variety last years and years, I have one that may be pushing 10 years old. I am also suspect of that 6 month claim but I won't be buying T5 VHO to find out.

 

[Johnseye]

Here's a good example of DIY LED succeeding or at least sustaining a reef with pictures. I would guess he has before pictures if we ask nicely. On MH/T5 combo prior. Past 2 years on LED. Some coral did well, some not so well. Lessons to be learned here. I've seen this tank in person. Even got frags. I was impressed.

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/162-tank-of-the-month

 

[shred5]

Here's a good example of DIY LED succeeding or at least sustaining a reef with pictures. I would guess he has before pictures if we ask nicely. On MH/T5 combo prior. Past 2 years on LED. Some coral did well, some not so well. Lessons to be learned here. I've seen this tank in person. Even got frags. I was impressed.

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/162-tank-of-the-month

To be honest. He runs some t-5 with the leds.

He also states:

The tank was switched to use LED lighting 2 years ago. For the prior 6 years, the tank was running on 400 W Radium and four T5 bulbs running on ice cap 660 ballast. Not all corals liked the LED switch. I lost most of my milliporas, after the switch. I should say that all the stags love the LEDs. I am seriously thinking of switching back to Halide and T5 combination or T5 and Led combination.

so he is thinking of switching back too halides or possibly led t5 combo even though he really is now.

I think hybrid fixtures are really the way too go when it comes to led.

 

[Wazzel]

I think hybrid fixtures are really the way too go when it comes to led.

IMO I think it depends. If you are moving from another system on a mature tank it would probably make sense to do a hybrid system. Coming from new, I think you can do LED only without much issues. With the option in operating condition, diode mix, coverage, etc you have to have a whole different mindset to work LED.

If it were me I would not pull a Mh or T-5 system off a tank I was happy with just to fiddle with LEDs. I tend to advise people not to do so also. I like LED, but there are so many reason why not to pull a working lighting system off a tank.

 

[Johnseye]

To be honest. He runs some t-5 with the leds.

He also states:



so he is thinking of switching back too halides or possibly led t5 combo even though he really is now.

I think hybrid fixtures are really the way too go when it comes to led.

He runs actinic T5s. Not sure that counts.

He is thinking of switching back, but there is 2 years of DIY LED pictures there. I also did point out he started with MH/T5.

Some pictorial evidence is better than nothing.

 

[theatrus]

I was surprised by that statement as well. The article is "greenhouse" centric so there is that.
And as I was corrected on earlier, T5VHO, not T12..

http://www.coralvue.com/icecap-660-vho-ballast-120vac-60hz

One does have to wonder when this:

Fully repairable

is a primary selling point..



Well it isn't the 80-90's anymore.. Cheap Chinese power caps..

I was able to repair my IceCap 660, pre CoralVue. The main input filter caps (Nichicon, though only 85C) exploded. Apart from having to drill out four rivets, everything was straightforward with easy to source parts.

 

[mussel and hate]

I don't think asking to see evidence of your success is some kind of ridiculous request. I look through the post history for everyone who makes claims here looking for pictures, opinions, past declarations.

If i see page after page of posts about DIY LEDs, but no posts with pictures of an aquarium, all that tells me is that the person may be an expert on creating light with LEDs. Sorry, but I need evidence that corals grow well under that light to believe.

I can only speak for myself here but there are compelling reasons for me to refrain from posting images of my tank for RC to view. I have posted many pictures on another forum over the years. A forum where I actually know the other posters and we get together to share drinks, food and socialize. I have no desire to have my anonymous RC account linked with my actual identity, address, everyday email, phone number etc. So sorry RC doesn't get to see my tank.

The whole pics or it didn't happen phenomenon is just a new Web age logical fallacy I like to call argumentum ad pictura. Having a picture doesn't prove a claim to be true and not having a picture certainly doesn't demonstrate a claim to be false. So where is the logic?

I've built a custom LED luminaire for my reef and it works well for the animals I keep which are mostly soft corals such as sarcophyton, sinularia, nepthea, capnella, rhodactis, discosoma, sympodium, briarium and entacmaea quadricolor . You can take my word for it or not. I'm ok with either.

Even had I no concern with separating my various online personas, the trend in this thread is to dismiss with condescension and derision any reefer than doesn't keep specific challenging acropora as being irelevent to the discussion regardless of their other experience or accomplishments.