Apolemichthys Kingi's!!!

[Vili_Shark]

Makes it highly unlikely that it's legal...

May I know why?
What am I missing?

Let's say the guy lied about where he got the fish and forgive me in advance,I'm not saying he lied.
What it got to do with the source of the fish?

You guys became investigators, prosecution and judges, all in one?

I do not get this?
For saying it is smuggled fish, give us a proof that these fish are smuggled.
Otherwise, why talk? turning green?

 

[Robby2782]

The real issue is how the OP decided to announce he got two Kingii. He claims the came from a LFS. First red flag (most are Presold and or someone has a spot for them and then they are sold, then said diver collects them) point being is they don't make it to a LFS with the hope that someone is going to walk in a drop 15-20k on them. Then he claims he doesn't own any other rare fish but purchased two that easily fetch 8-10k!?? Oh and it was his first post ever with the start of this thread, but he has been in the hobby for "years" Seems odd is all.

The person he got these from has several adult sized ones, and he's asking $8,000 per fish. He either purchased the fish,or he started this thread to hype the availability of the uber rare fish. Either way, they're too big for what I'd be willing to gamble on.

 

[BigBlueTang]

No ones trying to get mad at the OP, I doubt he was going out of his way to get illegal fish, but let's all just get back to the main point of this thread, to talk about the kingii's!


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[Dmorty217]

so, does it make the fish illegal? I'm serious...

No not 100% but couple that with where the fish is typically found and collected, wasn't offered thru a wholesaler, and not documented via social media or turned down by others who actually have collections of rare fish (have connections to the people that collect the rare, ultra rare with equally high price tag) its a higher probability they were not legally collected. lastly is price, price does make it pretty easy to determine if they are legally caught or not.

 

[Dmorty217]

The person he got these from has several adult sized ones, and he's asking $8,000 per fish. He either purchased the fish,or he started this thread to hype the availability of the uber rare fish. Either way, they're too big for what I'd be willing to gamble on.

The price still seems low for adults and too low when you think about what the person who has them paid for them from the collector

 

[Robby2782]

The price still seems low for adults and too low when you think about what the person who has them paid for them from the collector

Yes, but this price was offered to me as well.

 

[jbvdhp]

So... After all this time... Still no pics, OP? Come on...


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[Vili_Shark]

No not 100% but couple that with where the fish is typically found and collected, wasn't offered thru a wholesaler, and not documented via social media or turned down by others who actually have collections of rare fish (have connections to the people that collect the rare, ultra rare with equally high price tag) its a higher probability they were not legally collected. lastly is price, price does make it pretty easy to determine if they are legally caught or not.

In my book, when you blame somebody for something, or even hint about it, you better have some facts to back up your words.

You guys are blaming but make assumptions.

Your assumptions re the divers/collectors can hold if the fish were actually collected by Americans collectors .
Here, obviously it is not the case.

Given the fact that IF these fish were collected legally, they'd PROBABLY be from Madagascar / Mosambique , where the Hobbyists, rare fish collectors that you have mentioned have no contacts/connections , still does not mean to say these fish are illegal.

From a personal point of view , I see more and more Kingii being offered in the past couple of years, it'll be pretty sad to understand that all these fish are coming from South Africa , as it is not one or two occasions, but pretty steady trickle , which , again personally, making me think and want to believe that these are just coming from a new area and are legal.

About the price , large fish for 8K?
I'd not buy it for 500.00.
It's in most cases a fish with a few month mileage on it, browse online and see for yourself.

 

[Vili_Shark]

The price still seems low for adults and too low when you think about what the person who has them paid for them from the collector

Would you personally pay this price for a large adult Kingii?

I see your avatar and I'll ask one more, would you buy a large adult Bandit?

 

[photoblepharon]

How is there any debate about whether some kingis are coming out of ZA illegally? We know for a fact that people are shipping ZA endemic anthias out of ZA. P. connelli has never been recorded outside of ZA. Yet it's offered for sale in Europe and Asia. So clearly somebody is collecting fish in ZA and shipping them out. Are we really so naive to believe that if they caught a much more valuable kingi Angel they wouldn't sell it as well?

 

[photoblepharon]

Any reasons you feel the need to be aggressively combative with many in this thread? Too bad for OP he posts here to show some fish and it devolves into this.

Devolves into this? Sorry, what's the correct behavior? We all say "awesome fish" and nobody talks about serious issues like all the illegal fish in the aquarium trade?

Take a look at any of the threads here or blogs about any fish collected from French Polynesia. Nobody says a thing about the fact that French law prohibits all of these fish from being collected. That is not okay. That's a huge, ugly mark on our hobby that we need to be critical about. If we don't you can bet somebody else outside the hobby will.

 

[RynoParsons]

we in south africa have sort of the same problem. its illegal to import freshwater shrimp into south africa. but even the petshops sell them also freshwater lobsters. with a sub tropical country they also pose a big threat to our natural eco systems. even plecos. but people dont care they still support the illegal trade of these inverts....

 

[photoblepharon]

You keep talking about the Clarions, remind everybody who're not in the know, how many years passed?
And who got charged.

You are basing your posts on assumptions.
Instead of assumptions, give us some facts, some proves.
Fish X is smuggled from area Z and here is why__________.
Otherwise, anybody with brains won't take you seriously my friend.

Good luck reading my posts, means u have a lot of spare time

Okay, Fish X (Clarion Angelfish) was smuggled from area Z (Mexico) along with other smuggled goods C and I (cocaina and migrants) by person Q (Craig Lightner) and then fish X were purchased by wholesaler S (Eric Cohen) who either knew they were gotten from Mexico illegally or turned a blind eye to it and pretended to not have any awareness of the legal situation at the time. That specific enough for you?

 

[Vili_Shark]

How is there any debate about whether some kingis are coming out of ZA illegally? We know for a fact that people are shipping ZA endemic anthias out of ZA. P. connelli has never been recorded outside of ZA. Yet it's offered for sale in Europe and Asia. So clearly somebody is collecting fish in ZA and shipping them out. Are we really so naive to believe that if they caught a much more valuable kingi Angel they wouldn't sell it as well?

It's pretty simple my friend,
Madagascar, a huge island is pretty close.
there's collection there.
Can you name some of the fish that they are collecting?

 

[Vili_Shark]

Devolves into this? Sorry, what's the correct behavior? We all say "awesome fish" and nobody talks about serious issues like all the illegal fish in the aquarium trade?

Take a look at any of the threads here or blogs about any fish collected from French Polynesia. Nobody says a thing about the fact that French law prohibits all of these fish from being collected. That is not okay. That's a huge, ugly mark on our hobby that we need to be critical about. If we don't you can bet somebody else outside the hobby will.

Can you please elaborate on the French law and French Polynesia fish?

 

[Vili_Shark]

Okay, Fish X (Clarion Angelfish) was smuggled from area Z (Mexico) along with other smuggled goods C and I (cocaina and migrants) by person Q (Craig Lightner) and then fish X were purchased by wholesaler S (Eric Cohen) who either knew they were gotten from Mexico illegally or turned a blind eye to it and pretended to not have any awareness of the legal situation at the time. That specific enough for you?

You're good you
LOL.
You see that was not that difficult.

Since this we all know, and the people involved payed their debt to the society , would you please do the same with your assumptions on the Kingii?
If you can that is.

Otherwise, take a rest , "don't surprise me at all" and "shady fish" , you can get to court these days for such posts I thought that's how it works in America.

 

[MadReefer19]

Wow. So much reading and such sad things being posted. Now I see why guys generally don't post on these forums.

To clear the collection up, I asked initially where they were from and was told it came from one of these central wholesalers who keep fish from all locations around the world. All I was told is that they were legally imported into the USA. Not sure if that means that they from SA, Mozambique or Madagascar.

You guys can question all you like. I know what's in my tank... So clearly it doesn't matter what any of you think. Whether it's my first post or 1000 post it is irrelevant. Didn't know there was a minimum post requirement to show my newly acquired fish...

How do I have this thread removed?

 

[photoblepharon]

Can you please elaborate on the French law and French Polynesia fish?

Simple. French law prohibits the collection of aquarium fish using underwater breathing apparatus in French Polynesia.

 

[Vili_Shark]

Simple. French law prohibits the collection of aquarium fish using underwater breathing apparatus in French Polynesia.

Cool, that's what I thought, I just wanted to be sure.

So I know for a fact that at least one of the collectors in Tahiti is catching his fish at night using snorkel and plastic bags.

Here's another guy you owe an apology for , too bad he doesn't post here.

 

[Dmorty217]

Would you personally pay this price for a large adult Kingii?

I see your avatar and I'll ask one more, would you buy a large adult Bandit?

Not for that price because that's a red flag like I previously mentioned. I don't support the illegal side of this buisness. Yes I would and have bought a adult bandit from Rufus that was collected 100% legally. It's not about the size that was collected or offered, it's about them being legally obtained, and when you look at the price of these... Well there is no way they are legal. They would of already been sold in the Asian or European markets if they were. That's the point here