Approaches to feeding and nutrient export

I think Steve Weast's approach to feeding his cold water tank is genius, we just need to replicate that but on a much larger scale for tropical species. Concentrate as much small particulate food as possible *correction: concentrate the appropriate amount of particulate food* in the tank in a given amount of time and then let the rest get filtered out, all with automation. If you can grow enough live food to create the proper food density in your tank on a regular basis, even better. IME, sun corals do great with this method of feeding as well and it practically eliminates the need to target feed them. Larger LPS like Rhizo's and large dendro's may still benefit from occasional target feeding of larger foods but can go for weeks without and still look very good. Most of the time I could never see with the naked eye what my corals were eating but they were definitely eating. In a tank full of gorgonians there may not even be much food left over to filter out after the first 30 minutes or so. That is another thing... these are suspension feeders, they filter particles out from your water. In other words, they are filters in themselves and convert food to energy, growth and reproduction. A densely populated NPS tank will do better than a sparsely populated one because no matter what you need a certain food density, but a sparsely populated tank has lots of extra uneaten food. Then you get pests like aiptasia!

So Mike, I've seen this before from you. You only fed your tank a couple of times a day, right? Currently I feed every hour. What you are saying is I would be better feeding more every 4 hours. Is that what you are saying? Thanks!

Don
 
Hey Don,

No I fed my tank 20 times/day. If I designed it so that the food could circulate longer in the display I might decrease it to 10 times/day. Aquabacs was experimenting with decreasing the feeding frequency though.
 
Hmm ok. I guess I'll reset my pumps. I reduced my last night but upped the amount. See how much pull you still have in this hobby. Thanks Mike!
 
Hello Slapshot

why do not you try with the same quantity without occupying the bombs and do it of way for dripping?

fallen down by gravity during the day.
 
Hello Slapshot

why do not you try with the same quantity without occupying the bombs and do it of way for dripping?

fallen down by gravity during the day.

I am not a fan of the dripping. One I fear too little concentration and I can't get the drip from the location of my refrigerated feeding system. I feed directly into my return line. I could feed constantly but I also keep SPS. (I know I know) so I am walking the tight rope. I was feeding every hour then I went every two hours. I am back to every two hours. Everything seems happy at that. Is that how you keep all those gorgs of your happy, dripping?
 
Is that how you keep all those gorgs of your happy, dripping?

yes, the gorgos and other NF's are happy with the food dripping

only sometimes I give directly the food to the whole column of the water and others to every polyp of the dendros and tubastreas
 
I am surprised that methods like algae scrubbers are not more common, since they can target nutrients

I am also surprised. I have been using one for years and can't figure out why they are so rare.

The second school seems to be feeding live food, which doesn't seem to create the instant "hit" of nutrients that must be exported. I am surprised to see that this is not more common -

This also surprises me. Food IMO is the single most important thing to be concerned with in this hobby no matter is you have NPS, LPS, SPS or just fish. I have always fed live foods and always will. If your animals including corals are living entirely on commercially bought foods they are not very healthy at all. They may seem healthy but there is no substitute for live foods.
I commented on this on another thread and the thread starter posted that he just throws flakes in his tank and everything is living. I don't know how old his tank is but I said, is anything in your tank spawning and are your fish living at least ten or fifteen years. So far, no response.
I myself feed live baby brine shrimp every day and I have gorgs growing wild all over the place. I don't have any NPS gorgs but all gorgonians should eat. I also feed live blackworms and fresh clams.

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That's really interesting Uhuru. Are you basically saying that high instantaneous concentrations of food delivered intermittently in the water column is better than the same average concentration of food (ie. same total food) delivered at a constant rate?

Definitely. It has to do with both feeding response and poor food capturing ability of many NPS corals including gorgonians, dendronephthya and scleronephthya.

Circling back through the thread to pick up a couple more interesting discussion points.

So, when feeding these corals, what exactly are the main issues? How do you know when food is appropriate and how do you know when there's enough?

It sounds like the "enough" question is not straightforward. uhuru, how have you quantified your thoughts on high concentration/short duration versus low concentration/long duration?

If we talk about successful food captures by a coral, it seems like in both cases we're exposing the coral to the same number of opportunities - say, 100 units of food per unit of water volume for one hour, vs. 50 units of food per unit of water volume for two hours. How are these situations different to a coral?

Again, thanks for all the thoughtful responses, I am learning a lot here!
 
Paul B, do you have a link that describes your baby brine shrimp process? That seems right up my alley. as for the clams, do you just buy clms from the store and grind them up...daily? Thanks in advance :)
 
I have been successful at keeping nannochloropsis and rotifer cultures. I dose about 100ml of nanno every day (at F2 x 1.5 strength) and strain out about a gallon from my rotifer culture. I don't know if I'd call the results a success or not. What are the benefits of dosing nanno? rotifers? I've done it simply because, in my simple mind, live food is better. But I have not really been using a testing or measurement plan to confirm my results. Can someone comment on the benefit of dosing live nanno and/or rotifers?
 
do you have a link that describes your baby brine shrimp process?

The process is that I put the eggs in the right side (dark side) of that hatchery and there is a door over a hole that seperates it from the left (white) side.
After a day I open the door and cover the right side with a dark cover. I put a light over the left side and in 15 minutes all the shrimp swim to the light and the shells stay on the right side.
I start the eggs in a seperate container every day so I get a hatch every day. They take about 30 hours to hatch.
 
Hey Don,

No I fed my tank 20 times/day. If I designed it so that the food could circulate longer in the display I might decrease it to 10 times/day. Aquabacs was experimenting with decreasing the feeding frequency though.

Have you considered reducing the rate that the return pump flows at? Ive recently reduced my return down to almost half of what it was, the food stays in my display longer and I haven't seen any ill effects. I see food still flying around the display 1/2 hour after feeding.
 
As far as benefits of live over frozen from a nutrition standpoint. I have been going back and forth with a public aquarium that has an nps tank and discussing different methodologies. They have constant cultures of phyto, rotifers, copepods of different species and artemia going all the time for their breeding program and various tanks. He said that he experimented with live/vs frozen and saw no real difference in the growth of the corals using live then when he used frozen. He does still use live phyto, but that is only because ironically, it is easier for him to use that as they culture gallons of the stuff constantly. But he has switched to frozen rotifers, copepods and the likes for ease of feeding and the tank is still doing quite well.

Are you talking to Todd or Joe @ Atlantis?
 
I am also surprised. I have been using one for years and can't figure out why they are so rare.



This also surprises me. Food IMO is the single most important thing to be concerned with in this hobby no matter is you have NPS, LPS, SPS or just fish. I have always fed live foods and always will. If your animals including corals are living entirely on commercially bought foods they are not very healthy at all.

I respectively disagree, but I do not know your definition of "commercially bought foods" so we may not be on different pages.
 
Are you talking to Todd or Joe @ Atlantis?

Todd is the one that takes care of the NPS system so we always end up talking about that, but I chat with both of them though about reefs in general.


I respectively disagree, but I do not know your definition of "commercially bought foods" so we may not be on different pages.

I don't think Paul is referring to frozen foods, more like flake and pellet foods. Although I think there is some nutritional benefit to be had from both of those, but like anything, if fed exclusively will lead to nutritional deficiencies. Like if we only ate cheeseburgers.
 
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