aqua lifter or doser controller via apex for ATO

[110galreef]

should i get an aqua lifter and prgram it based on avg evaporation with a float switch as a safety back up and/or also the salinity probe...to shut off if water level rises to a certain point or salinity drops below say 33.5ppt??

It is a 3 gph pump, my tank seems to loose about 3 gals per day pretty consisitenlty. So if I simply set it to run say 6 times a day for 10 mins that would put basically the correct amount in.

Worst case say I only lose 2 gals a day over a week, I would have an extra 7 gals of RO water (which sump can easily handle) and wouldnt change salinity that much on 325gals volume.

Basically about $30. Is the pump reliable/consistent enuf?

Or go with the BRS doser pump & do basically the same thing? But about $100

Or any other pump ideas?

I am definitly tinkering with my tank evry day to notice if the water is off, just don't want to manuually have to add the 3 gals every day myself & would rather spread it out to reduce swings...

 

[slief]

I use an aquamedic dosing pump similar to the BRS doser but I am using float switches to control my top off via my Apex. If you want to insure consitant water levels in your sump, I feel that float switches will be a better solution. I also like using a dosing pump due to the fact that water is added much slower which means that should a problem occur with the top off system, it will happen much slower leaving less chance of a catastrophic issue.

 

[110galreef]

The thing with floats, is most are recomended for under water use, plus they can stick. With simple timing of the aqau lifter/doser pump then i will have vary little change still, again even if I'm off a gallon a day, that would only mean like ~ 5 gals over a week period.

Do you have suggestions for good floats? Can I program the apex to say limit the time the aqua lifter would run and for only so long in the event a float stuck.

Like say, basically that the aqualifter could not exceed a total of 90 mins (4.5gals/day) or or no more than 11 mins 8 times a day?

 

[slief]

The thing with floats, is most are recomended for under water use, plus they can stick. With simple timing of the aqau lifter/doser pump then i will have vary little change still, again even if I'm off a gallon a day, that would only mean like ~ 5 gals over a week period.

Do you have suggestions for good floats? Can I program the apex to say limit the time the aqua lifter would run and for only so long in the event a float stuck.

Like say, basically that the aqualifter could not exceed a total of 90 mins (4.5gals/day) or or no more than 11 mins 8 times a day?

I use Reef Fanatic floats but I also have them wired up in pairs for redundancy so if one fails, the Apex wont respond. I have been using them for a year now and have yet to have an issue. Basicly, both have to be open for my top off to turn on. My "TooHigh" float switch is always out of the water and it to works fine.

Here is a link to the float switches I use. Another alternative are the ones from Chicago Sensor. You will need to come up with your own mount though. The ones from Chicago have bare wire ends and are cheaper but I think that one of their models is the same that reef fanatic uses less the mount and plug on the end.

For me the Reef Fanatic ones were the best option as they came with a decent removable mount that I epoxied to a magnet scrubber instead of using the supplied suction cups. They also come with a headphone jack connection which was great as I made my breakout box with female headphone jacks. I keep spares on hand so if one fails, it would take seconds to swap out. To make the switches redundant, I use a headphone splitter which allows me to plug 2 switches into one port.

 

[Zebodog]

Use 2 floats connected through a breakout box to your apex. Mount the second float switch about an inch above the first as a redundancy.

I don't know of any way to monitor the length of time an outlet stays on using standard programming but it might be possible with the OSC command and a few virtual outlets.

 

[dzhuo]

You are over thinking about this.

As much as your float switch would "stick", there is also a chance your timer would malfunction. Match your evaporation rate (which change through out the year) with timer isn't the best approach. Using a doser as ATO pump is a waste and unnecessary. If you are truly worry about sticky float switch, look into a Tunze Osmolator which uses a combination of optic sensor as well as float switch as double guarantee. You also want to limit the size of your RO reservoir so that when the worse possible failure happens, you should never pump so much water into the tank that drastically affect salinity or overflow your sump.

 

[110galreef]

Ok, so i ordered up the aqualifter for this.

I like the Tunze, but I already paid for a controller and trying to do the ATO on the cheap yet safe!

As for my ATO holding bin. It holds a maximum of 25g which I manually fill each week. So that is one fail safe for sure. 25g would be the MOST that could be pumped into the system.

I will just go with one float to control the aqualifter, then program the outlet to shut off if salinity drops below 33.5.

So first control , is the float switch,
second, is the salinity monitor,
3rd is the fact that the ATO will never have more than 25g's RO/DI to add, of which the sump will hold.

So i really see no issue's here...RIGHT??

Plus the cost for this is less than $30

 

[sjm817]

Best bet for float switches is to have two. The primary is the low/high on/off pump control. The second one is a fail safe. It sits a little higher in the sump than the primary. If the primary sticks and the level rises, the secondary overrides and shuts off the ATO.

 

[Chris27]

You have an Apex right.....why not just use two floats, one as a trigger, and the other as a backup, and control power to a pump via a spare outlet on the apex power bar? When the lower swich is "on" the pump is on, when it's off, the pump is off. The second switch could then be programed to cut power to the pump in the event it's on due to the lower switch getting stuck.

The cost would only be about $20 for the two floats, and you could use a spare maxi you likely have sitting in a box in the garage....you don't really need an aqualifter unless we're talking about pumping water up to high for a maxi.

Don't use the salinity probe as your main failsafe, it'll take a lot of 0 ppt water to lower the salinity in a 250 Gal system....and going the other way, it would take a good deal of evaporation for the ATO to come back on... possibly allowing the water level to drop too low in turn damaging a return pump.

Two floats, a pump, and the Apex will solve your problem, after that a once every few months cleaning of the floats will ensure you're system is working well.

 

[110galreef]

Ok, i will order up another float. I went with the aqualifter as most small pumps can't really push the 4-5ft head very well. Plus the aqualifter is only $15.

Thanks guys.
Now i will just have to figure out the APEX code!

 

[sjm817]

If you topoff with Kalk, pH can be another failsafe. If the pH goes above a set point, turn off the ATO.

 

[110galreef]

No kalk in ATO,

 

[Chris27]

Installation is easy.....the programing on the other hand can be a royal PITA.....at least that was the case with me and my Reefkeeper....

 

[dzhuo]

I would not recommend a Maxi as it might not be designed to be on/off constantly throughout the day. Another simple yet effective trick you can use to prevent sticky float switch is to build a mesh fence around the sensor. Basically it's an enclosure with small holes all around to prevent macro algae, snail and other larger critters get near the sensor. It would probably take you 20 minutes to do for about $5.

 

[bamf25]

Aqualifter works great for me.

 

[scolley]

... If you are truly worry about sticky float switch, look into a Tunze Osmolator which uses a combination of optic sensor as well as float switch as double guarantee.

+1

I've been a die hard Neptune fan for years. I've got multiple, and control multiple tanks with them. Cannot say enough good things...

However, the one exception for tank system control I made is ATO. The reason is because of the - IMO - poor options of water depth sensing available to the hobbyist. But Tunze's Ozmolators float/optical pair provides resilience - and sensing type diversity - at a reasonable price.

Lots of ways to solve ATO. And it's kind of irritating to not have a 100% Apex controlled system. It certainly bothers me. But in ATO, the issue is not CONTROL, it's about highly reliable level DETECTION. And nothing beats the Tunze.

 

[sjm817]

I use a Reef Fanatics dual level controller ATO. Level sensing could not be better. The level change in the sump is so small you can not even see it. It also has built in hysteresis so that you dont have the pump cycle on and off constantly. The system has worked flawlessly for over 7 years.

 

[moondoggy4]

I have a Reef Fanatics with the two floats but only use one I am not sure of to use both. I got my first float epoxied to a magnet.

 

[sjm817]

Look at the instructions and use mode A. Primary float works the topoff, secondary float sits a bit higher and acts as a failsafe if primary fails.

 

[moondoggy4]

Sorry did not get the instructions, second hand purchase. I will try the mode A. Thanks