ARID E18 reactor (Phosphate Control!!!)

Just tested water.

NO3 was less than 0.2 ppm
PO4 was still 0.00 ppm


I'm kinda surprised the PO4 was still undetectable. Its actually only been 13.5 hours since the last dose of NO3 and me adding Nori to the tank.....so maybe the PO4 I got in my earlier test was from the Nori?

I'm also surprised that the NO3 level went down that quickly. Now I'm wondering if 8mls is not enough for a daily dose, and I need to up it some?

The KNO3 powder should arrive today along with my Walter White starter kit. I'm going to mix up a solution and see if there is any precipitate or residual detritus that falls out of suspension and collects in the bottom of a sealed flask. If it doesnt, then I shouldnt have to run an airstone in a container to keep it mixing. If it does, I will.

I want to be able to figure out how much NO3 needs to be dosed daily and then mix up at least a weeks worth of NO3 supplement and use an extra dosing pump I've got to add it to the tank over the 7 day time frame. I dont want to be chained to the tank adding NO3 every day....it's just not practical for me to do so with the kids being so young.
 
I was using about 60ml a day from the standard solution that they send.

When mixing my own, I am adding 21ml a day, I think that is adding about .75ppm of nitrates a day.

Right now my NO3 is about 2-5 ppm and the PO4 is been at 0 for a week. My chaeto is hardly growing in the reactor right now. So after about 5 months it looks like the PO4 is limiting my growth, which is exactly what I want. I have no algae in the main tank, no cyano anyplace.

At some point you will have to make a choice, add more fish and feed more to keep some nitrates in the tank, or get a dosing pump and have it add some nitrates. I have added about 12 little fish and am feeding the tank more, but still I am dosing. I have a BRS dosing pump sitting around from when I was dosing carbon, so I can easily put that online if I need to.
 
Thanks Joe.
Are you concerned about the lack of PO4 in your system preventing growth of your corals? I saw your latest pictures and the frags look good.

This is all preparatory to rebooting the 120. The stock list for the 120 will be:

Blue line angel, (small 2 inches...already had him for almost a year.)
Tomini Tang, (small 2.25 inches...already had him for 6 months)
Mated pair of Rod's Onyx Percula clowns, (had them for about 11 years)
Bonded pair black ocellaris clowns, (had them for about a year)
Small Yellow Tang, (1-1.5 inches...enroute from Blue Zoo Aquatics)
Small Doliatus Rabbitfish, (2-2.5 inches...enroute from Blue Zoo Aquatics)
Small Starcki Damsel, (0.5-1.5 inches...enroute from Blue Zoo Aquatics)

The two pairs of clowns are a gamble, but I need them to keep the other fish out the three H.magnifica anemones I've got and had for several years. The tank is being designed around them. I figure with several fish swimming about the tank, I can keep the clowns from venturing too far from their anemones and beating on each other.

I just need to get the new fish eating prepared foods and that should help with the NO3 input. I may still have to dose NO3, but it should be less than before. I'm going to have to get used to feeding more...for the longest time I fed very little to avoid increasing PO4 in my tank. Having this reactor means I need to feed more.

This is a change I'm happy to deal with.
 
I'm not that concerned about low PO4. Last time my tank was N at 0 and P at 0 using GFO and carbon dosing, and I still had very strong growth.

My plan in the future is to play with the amount of time I have the ARID reactor lit. Right now I have the light on for 12 hours down from 18 and will drop it down to 8. At some point I think there is a balance between lighting the reactor and how much nutrients it will pull out. Even if I can keep the N at 5 and P at 0 I will still be happy.
 
That makes sense.
What NO3 kit are you using, Salifert?

Keeping NO3 at 0.2-0.5 ppm seems reasonable.

I'm still amazed that I'm actually saying that....less than a month of running the ARID, and I'm now concerned it's takiing too much NO3 and PO4 out of the water column.

That's a good problem to have, and not one I've had to consider before.
 
Does anyone make a better NO3 test kit?

By better, I mean not the way Salifert does their NO3 kit where you have to compare color graduations to determine NO3 levels?

Something that works the Salifert's Ca, DKH, or Mg would be great....much easier to determine a color change instead of color differences.....
 
You mentioned iron dosing. I did a simple experiment with iron. I mixed up a fresh gallon of ASW, and dosed it with PO4. I then tested it with my hanna checker and got the proper reading for the amount of PO4 dosed. I then dosed iron and let it mix for about 15 mins. Then I retested and got a zero reading. I have no idea if the test is being fooled by the iron or if the iron bound up the PO4. I know GFO is iron so.

Just putting that out there.
 
This seems like a pretty nifty idea, with a price tag to match; but is it really better than a well-designed refugium? I have an elevated sump and light my chaeto from the top,and the bottom and get very good growth. What makes this better? Not trolling; genuinely interested.
 
Think of it like a skimmer, price wise. I had a refugium, I couldn't get it to work this good.
 
2_zoa said:
You mentioned iron dosing. I did a simple experiment with iron. I mixed up a fresh gallon of ASW, and dosed it with PO4. I then tested it with my hanna checker and got the proper reading for the amount of PO4 dosed. I then dosed iron and let it mix for about 15 mins. Then I retested and got a zero reading. I have no idea if the test is being fooled by the iron or if the iron bound up the PO4. I know GFO is iron so.

Just putting that out there.
Click to expand...

The iron supplement is a mix of Iron and Manganese. What ratios they are mixed together, I dont know. You are correct regarding GFO being iron which absorbs PO4. However, I dont know how the Iron & Manganese supplement mixture could be so potent that 6 drops per day are able to absorb the amount of PO4 my system has/had, when ALOT of GFO and 10% weekly water changes were not able to keep it below 0.08-0.1 ppm for 7 days.

I dont think its merely a matter of iron "fooling" the test, since I've also noticed a significant decrease in glass cleaning/scraping and a decrease in Cyano.

I'm not a chemist, and I'm not a scientist, and I have a sample size of one.
So this is really anecdotal observations, vs a scientific test.

The whole purpose of me starting this thread was to spark discussion and get some other viewpoints and observations out there. If anyone out there has a better method of NO3 and PO4 control, and can point out ways to improve this or better yet, get me the same results without the ARID and without spending the money on it...I'm all ears.

I'm interested in the results of this, not the means per se...

Hope that makes sense.

ca1ore said:
This seems like a pretty nifty idea, with a price tag to match; but is it really better than a well-designed refugium? I have an elevated sump and light my chaeto from the top,and the bottom and get very good growth. What makes this better? Not trolling; genuinely interested.
Click to expand...

I dont necessarily think the ARID is "better" than what you've got going. Rather, a different way of achieving it.

I tried a traditional refugium a couple of different times, all with negative results. Obviously, some of that is due to my unique circumstances regarding my tank being in the basement, and me not being able to get good solid growth out Chaeto. I couldnt get it to tumble right, so only one side was getting lit and growing while the bottom was dying and releasing nutrients.

Honestly, I never thought of the lighting from below approach either...I dont know if that would have worked for me or not.

IMO, if you're already able to maintain your PO4 and NO3 levels without the ARID, and it's not costing you more than the ARID to do so...then I wouldnt change a thing.

Where I think the ARID shines over a traditional Refugium, (nutrient export only) is in space savings. If you have a limited amount of space, and want to run a fuge for nutrient export, this thing rocks!

If you are just setting up an add on refugium to handle an NO3/PO4, (or both) issue, the cost to do so will end up close to what I paid for this, (albeit less I think, but not by alot) when you factor in the cost of the tank, baffles, plumbing, feed pump, drilling the tank, buying lighting and the monthly cost to run it all etc.

Obviously, if you've been in the hobby for awhile, you probably have spares, or old items lying around that can be used for making a Refugium which would save you money.

I'm not married to the ARID, and I dont think it's the All-Singing-All-Dancing solution to the eternal NO3/PO4 problem.

I DO think it's a valuable option, and in my case, has managed to do things in under a month, that I've never been able to do.

I'm very much aware of how many folks get personally invested in their purchases, and how the more expensive such items are, the more virulent and "Zealot-y" a person can become. To that end, I'm trying to report my observations as unbiased as I can. I'm not trying to preach the koolaid flavor of the week to whoever signs on.

I hope I didnt come off as argumentative....nothing could be further from the truth here. I'm genuinely wanting give and take from anyone reading this.

For me, the ARID works. I'm very excited about reef keeping again. I was very close to throwing in the towel...seriously.

But I dont think it will be the magic bullet for every aquarium.




I need to get some sleep. I've been up since 315 am this morning and I only got 2.5 hours of sleep before that....so I'm pretty fried.

I'm sure I'll read this in the morning and wish I hadnt posted a reply til morning.


G'night all.
 
OK, thanks for the thoughtful and sensible responses. I totally 'get' the notion of a purpose-designed device to grow chaeto, and there's something appealing about the neatness of the reactor. It would also free up space in my sump to perhaps focus a bit more on pod growth. As I said before, it's a pretty nifty idea and I liked it a lot when I saw them at the FFM in CT earlier this year. Almost bought one then :)
 
maxxII said:
The iron supplement is a mix of Iron and Manganese. What ratios they are mixed together, I dont know. You are correct regarding GFO being iron which absorbs PO4. However, I dont know how the Iron & Manganese supplement mixture could be so potent that 6 drops per day are able to absorb the amount of PO4 my system has/had, when ALOT of GFO and 10% weekly water changes were not able to keep it below 0.08-0.1 ppm for 7 days.

I dont think its merely a matter of iron "fooling" the test, since I've also noticed a significant decrease in glass cleaning/scraping and a decrease in Cyano.

I'm not a chemist, and I'm not a scientist, and I have a sample size of one.
So this is really anecdotal observations, vs a scientific test.

The whole purpose of me starting this thread was to spark discussion and get some other viewpoints and observations out there. If anyone out there has a better method of NO3 and PO4 control, and can point out ways to improve this or better yet, get me the same results without the ARID and without spending the money on it...I'm all ears.

I'm interested in the results of this, not the means per se...

Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...


When I dosed my 65 with iron I dosed Randy's diy iron using Fergon tablets. I dosed the recommended amount of .25-1.25ml per 50 gals. I dosed my 65 at .25-.50ml to the tank. So that was more then your 6 drops in your 120. I actually got to where I dosed PO4 to my tank. I had to dose a lot of PO4 to see any effects. When they did show (visually) it was on the glass and not in the test kit.

In your case, you have something I didnt/don't. That's algae. So that IMO should be considered when thinking about where your PO4 reading went. I had a thread about adding PO4 and Randy commented stating that he didn't think that the iron was or is foolin the test. I still can't get a reading on my checker and I've not gone after PO4 in a good while. GlennF uses iron to control PO4

I would imagine a liquid would be much more efficient at removing said problem over a solid in a reactor or passively sitting in the sump. Look how fast lanthium chloride works.
 
2_zoa said:
When I dosed my 65 with iron I dosed Randy's diy iron using Fergon tablets. I dosed the recommended amount of .25-1.25ml per 50 gals. I dosed my 65 at .25-.50ml to the tank. So that was more then your 6 drops in your 120. I actually got to where I dosed PO4 to my tank. I had to dose a lot of PO4 to see any effects. When they did show (visually) it was on the glass and not in the test kit.

In your case, you have something I didnt/don't. That's algae. So that IMO should be considered when thinking about where your PO4 reading went. I had a thread about adding PO4 and Randy commented stating that he didn't think that the iron was or is foolin the test. I still can't get a reading on my checker and I've not gone after PO4 in a good while. GlennF uses iron to control PO4

I would imagine a liquid would be much more efficient at removing said problem over a solid in a reactor or passively sitting in the sump. Look how fast lanthium chloride works.
Click to expand...

I was using significantly more LC in order to curb the PO4 and wasnt getting these kinds of results, much less for this long.

There is no doubt in my mind that the chaeto is where the NO3 and PO4 are going, and by trashing/selling the chaeto the LFS, I'm exporting it from my system.

I believe the iron manganese (IM) solution is beneficial to the cheato and not much more. I'm dosing it directly in to the sump, after the skimmer, into the same chamber the ARID reactor feed pump is at. For the 6 drops of IM to be binding that much PO4 it would have to go somewhere, and it isnt getting into the skimmer very well since it has go all through the system to get back to the skimmer.

Again, I'm not a scientist or even a chemistry guru.
If there is a Chemistry Special Ed class, I'm working to get into it...:facepalm:

But I do grasp how this works....simply put....

Chaeto in the cannister, plus lights and water flowing through it, means the Chaeto gets to strip NO3 and PO4 from the water column. Chaeto grows faster than other macro algae's so it is the best for this type of application.
Chaeto grows fast enough that NO3 and IM need to be added to the water to continue its growth, allowing it to continue to strip PO4 from the water.
The limiting factor becomes NO3 since it is stripped from the water faster than the PO4.

Continue adding NO3 to continue growing Chaeto so that it can continue to remove PO4.

I havent yet done a water change.
I havent had to change filter socks, (which was kind of a PITA due to my sump design and how my system..."evolved", (IE had tanks added on to it).
I am having to dose NO3 and IM.
And this is working for me so far.
 
I was thinking, in the end the important thing here is. The fact that the ARID has renewed your interest in the hobby. Like you mentioned, you were considering getting out. I'm glad you found something that works for your system and has given you much interest in your tank.


P.S. I can relate to the early mornings. I get up at 2:45am so I can start work at 4:00. Gets old come Friday.
 
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