Askoll 1500 skimmer pump replacement

[slief]

An old bump but the board won't let me send PMs at the moment so I figured it would be worth a shot.

Sleif seems to have a great deal of knowledge on the Askoll/Laguna 1500 style pumps.
I have an older SWC 230 that i believe is running an Askoll/Laguna 1500. The problem is that it is incredibly loud and has just gotten worse and worse in the last year.

I can't find anything that says it should be noisy. In fact, all the review seem to rave about how quiet it is. I took it apart and re-assembled it to no real effect but I saw that it's missing several needles from the wheel. I am of the mind that the needle wheel is out of balance and as a consequence it's creating a vibration in the body that is making the noise.

So I'm looking to replace the wheel. Some people seem to think that the enkmat/mesh wheel is the way to go but frankly, engineers do what they do for a reason and I'm inclined to believe if that was the way to do it, that's the way they'd have designed them. I'd like to just find a replacement needlewheel for the 1500 but can't figure out what I need.

You seem to have a lot of experience with this pump; is there any other brand of wheel/impeller I can buy and make work with this pump? Or should I just cut all the needles out and try the enkmat mesh mod first?

I'd appreciate any insight you may have here. Thanks.

The needle wheels are specific to the volute/pump cover and I don't think you could swap from one brand (Royal Exclsuiv) as an example to SWC. Especially given that RE does infact have different impellers for different volutes on the same motorblock. They do this to match the skimmers requirements. That said, I do agree with your conclusion that the needle wheel is out of balance or at least the missing teeth are contributing to the noise due to cavitation being caused in the pump head. There is nothing in the block itself that can cause noise. The only thing that could potentially cause the noise is the bearing at the base on the magnet cavity being crusted up or not inserted properly into the block. If for example it's inserted upside down or not level in the bearing cavity, it can generate some noise. See my post above for instruction on bearing removal/installation.

If you are certain that it's the impeller, you will need to find the original SWC one.

 

[ozzie0913]

Wow; impressive response time.

I'm fairly certain at this point that no such animal exists; SWC has been out of business for some time. Laguna seems to have gotten out of the business of dealing with skimmer pumps and are doing exclusively return pumps.

So you figure my best bet at this point is just trying the mesh mod and seeing how it goes? This skimmer does an incredible job, it's just noisy as crap. I'd put a new pump in there if I had to and keep the Askoll block as a backup but even that seems like there's a bunch of conflicting information.

 

[slief]

Wow; impressive response time.

I'm fairly certain at this point that no such animal exists; SWC has been out of business for some time. Laguna seems to have gotten out of the business of dealing with skimmer pumps and are doing exclusively return pumps.

So you figure my best bet at this point is just trying the mesh mod and seeing how it goes? This skimmer does an incredible job, it's just noisy as crap. I'd put a new pump in there if I had to and keep the Askoll block as a backup but even that seems like there's a bunch of conflicting information.

I know nothing about the mesh mods for those pumps. Laguna never made the needle wheels for these pumps as far as I'm aware. Those needle wheels came from 3rd parties such as Royal Exclusiv, SWC, ATB and Vertex who have all used the Askoll blocks at one point or another. You could do one of a few things. One would be to try to locate a needle wheel and volute for the Askoll 1500 block from Royal Exclusiv, ATB or Vertex. Royal does offer them but it would be expensive. ATB USA may be able to help and even Vertex USA. Again, these options would be expensive ones since the impeller and volute combination would be required as they need to match. The other alternative would be to contact somebody like ATB and buy one of their complete DC skimmer pumps. I am not a fan of the Chinese DC pumps as they are nowhere near as reliable as a properly maintained Askoll block but it is certainly an option that would work. My only concern would be matching the height of your skimmers inlet to that of the DC pump as I don't know what the SWC stand/base looks like. Regardless, I am sure you could come up with something to raise a new skimmer pump if it doesn't line up.

 

[slief]

Wow; impressive response time.

I'm fairly certain at this point that no such animal exists; SWC has been out of business for some time. Laguna seems to have gotten out of the business of dealing with skimmer pumps and are doing exclusively return pumps.

So you figure my best bet at this point is just trying the mesh mod and seeing how it goes? This skimmer does an incredible job, it's just noisy as crap. I'd put a new pump in there if I had to and keep the Askoll block as a backup but even that seems like there's a bunch of conflicting information.

I just looked up the SWC 230. It appears that pump is inside the skimmer body. If that is the case, you are going to be very limited on your options. You will not be able to take an off the shelf volute/impeller combo (from any 3rd party company such as RE, ATB, Vertex) and make it work inside that skimmer. At least not easily. Your best bet may be to try a mesh mod though I am not sure that will solve your issue.

 

[slief]

Wow; impressive response time.

I'm fairly certain at this point that no such animal exists; SWC has been out of business for some time. Laguna seems to have gotten out of the business of dealing with skimmer pumps and are doing exclusively return pumps.

So you figure my best bet at this point is just trying the mesh mod and seeing how it goes? This skimmer does an incredible job, it's just noisy as crap. I'd put a new pump in there if I had to and keep the Askoll block as a backup but even that seems like there's a bunch of conflicting information.

This company seems to be offering the SWC skimmers. I don't know if they took over the SWC line or what the affiliation is if any. They seem to own the swcskimmers.com site. You might want to contact them and see if they can get you a new impeller.
http://elitereef.com

 

[ozzie0913]

I just looked up the SWC 230. It appears that pump is inside the skimmer body. If that is the case, you are going to be very limited on your options. You will not be able to take an off the shelf volute/impeller combo (from any 3rd party company such as RE, ATB, Vertex) and make it work inside that skimmer. At least not easily. Your best bet may be to try a mesh mod though I am not sure that will solve your issue.

Correct; it's an internal pump. Went that route to reduce the footprint and I think it's serving to exacerbate the vibration as like I said; it's creating a harmonoic that I believe is traveling through the entire body of the skimmer.

Oddly enough, if i 'disconnect' the volute by pulling the little piece that runs from the airline into the body of the skimmer itself (essentially removing the air from the system and making it a pure return pump), the vibration stops. That's why your cavitation point made a lot of sense to me - when the volute is full of water only and no air is introduced, everything quiets down.

 

[ozzie0913]

This company seems to be offering the SWC skimmers. I don't know if they took over the SWC line or what the affiliation is if any. They seem to own the swcskimmers.com site. You might want to contact them and see if they can get you a new impeller.
http://elitereef.com

Great minds....

I called them about 20 minutes ago; they still have the skimmers but no parts (and the skimmers are warehoused anyway for online sale only so they wouldn't bother parting one out).

 

[SDguy]

Just wanted to update.... between travel and the holidays, I don't have time to mess around with this anymore. I bought the Regal 250INT skimmer with Varios 6S pump. What a dream! It runs beautifully, and the pump is so silent I can't even believe they make pumps like this nowadays (yes, I'm old school ). Jeremy at Coralvue was extremely helpful with selecting a proper sized skimmer.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/regal-250int-10-internal-protein-skimmer-varios-reef-octopus.html