Astaxanthin as a supplement

[tedr]

Has anyone heard of using Astaxanthin as a supplemenmt for clown fry? It is a carotenoid that has a red pigment. It is found naturally in crustaceans. It supposedly is being used to help prevent misbarring. If someone has had first hand experience, what dosage is commonly used? From what I have read, this supplement is sold as a soft gel capsule.

Appreciate any info available.

Thnx

 

[billsreef]

It's also available as a powder under the name Natu Rose. IIRC it's sold by brineshrimpdirect.com Someplace in this forum is a very good thread about coating foods with it.

 

[tedr]

Thanks, Bill. I'll probably try Brine Shrimp Direct's NatuRose enriched food. Will pass on any results I notice. Right now, I'm probably running 60 to 70% fully barred.

Ted

 

[kerusso316]

100 parts dry food to 1 part Naturose....... top with fishoil

 

[tedr]

Please explain "top with fishoil." How exactly are you using? Is the fishoil a commercial supplement that you purchase, or can fishoil soft gels caps for human supplementing be used?

Thanks.

 

[FMarini]

Tedr-
where is murphy TX

Anyway this natu-rose is a powder that you "coat" the food particles with. Many folks do a shake and bake type bag thing to coat the food (like otohime). The fish oil allows the stuff to stick to the food better, then once its dries its more permanent, and doesn't float off.
The food sold my BSD comes premilled/premixed w it.

In the same regards many folks like using cyclopeeze products instead of adding coloring enhancing agents. Cyclopeeze is loaded w/ xanthins, and should you feed your clown fry for approx 2 weeks before bringing to market you should note a vast difference in coloration
frank

 

[tedr]

Frank, SE of Dallas between Plano and Wylie, and approximately 2 miles due south of South Fork Ranch.

The reason I even brought up the Astaxanthin as a supplement was because of a post on the Dallas site mentioning that some breeders are using it to help eliminate misbarring. Wasn't sure how a supplement that enhances colors such as red and orange had anything to do with white bars on clowns. Thus, the testing of the waters on RC.

Now, to show my true age and lack of texting knowledge, what exactly do you mean by, " The food sold my BSD comes milled/premixed w it?" I know that "BS" is an acronym for brine shrimp, among other things. What does the "D" reference? Do know "w" is with.

Thanks, again. Ted

 

[tedr]

I hate it when it takes so long for the lightbulb to go on. BSD equals Brine Shrimp Direct

 

[FMarini]

Ted-
I too am not sure how a coloring agent woul dcontribute to correction of misbars. Sounds like coincidence. Got a link to the dallas club thread

 

[Atticus]

I believe you will find that those breeders using cyclop-eeze are focusing on nutrition and as a side effect are getting better barring. There could also be a correlation to lower nitrates when using cyclop-eeze, as compaired with an oil packed mysis or brine, but that just feeds back to my water quality experiments and my attempt to get barless clowns.

 

[tedr]

Atticus, I had heard that cyclopeez by itself does not have a high nutritional value. Of course, I do soak in Selcon before using.
Your thoughts?

As to a barrless clown, my Son is now at A&M Galveston doing his Marine Biology thing, and he left me a 47g bow he had set up as a clown tank. Working at an LFS in the Dallas area before he left, he did pick up an almost barless orange ocellaris, believe it was ORA, with just a very small white dot at the base of its tail. He is hooked up with a B&W female. No action yet. Anyone for a barless black clown???? That would really be wishfull thinking. Thanks for your help.

 

[Atticus]

I had 3 black ocellaris with single spots on one side of their tail bar while I was experimenting. The nake orange ocellaris has been around awhile and the first spawning pair I had heard of and seen was at inland aquatics.

As for nutritional value of cyclpo-eeze I would compare it to brine, they are only worth what they are gut loaded with or soaked in. In my previous post I was simply stating that those willing to spend time and money on cyclop-eeze typically are the ones that provide a more varied and nutritionally sound diet.

 

[GreshamH]

Maybe BBS, but not adults Atticus

 

[Atticus]

This is not live brine gut loaded with phytoplankton either.... (side note to those reading along baby brine cannot be gut loaded, but they can be soaked in fish oil based suppliments) I am amazed by this information. The graph clearly shows cyclop-eeze's value. Wish this info was available a few years ago... I still place it in the same category as brine for my purposes though. It is a secondary or even tertiary(candy like treat) food never to be a primary. My fry did recieve a minimum of 1 feeding of cyclop-eeze every other day and I had great success with that schedule.

 

[FMarini]

Wow- great info Gresham thanks. i would not have guess it either.
Atticus- I still don't see how a coloring agent will modify an event like barring, not knowing the genetics of barring isn't it a genetically control event, or your statement, its would suggest an epi-genetic event.

 

[Atticus]

Barring has been shown to be more affected by environment than genetics. This can be proven by ones ability to take a misbarred pair and get nearly or 100% fully barred fry. I actually accomplished this feat with my black ocellaris pair. I then took fry from the same parents and subjected them to environmental ques resulting in over 80% misbarred with 5 nearly stripeless clowns 3 only have small dots on one side of their tail bar.

There has also been a slight predisposition to increased misbarring linking it to genetics shown through slective breeding with naked clowns, picassos, snow flake, and onyx variants, but it is a weak link...

My personal understanding of barring is that it is mainly controlled by water quality, nutrition of fry, nutrition of parents, and finally genetics (in that particular order).

 

[GreshamH]

That info I posted has been available ever since CE was on the market. They sent me samples (several kilos), those graphs plus more when CE first came onto the market. I just grabbed them off the site this time rather then scanning what I had

 

[FMarini]

Atticus-
allow me to disagree, to a lesser point.
If naked clowns make more naked clowns then naked-ness is genetic. I suspect what your trying to say is that a component of baring is influenced by epigenetic events (environmental events), but that barring is a genetic event.

 

[Atticus]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10747889#post10747889 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FMarini
Atticus-
allow me to disagree, to a lesser point.
If naked clowns make more naked clowns then naked-ness is genetic. I suspect what your trying to say is that a component of baring is influenced by epigenetic events (environmental events), but that barring is a genetic event.

Frank,

I guess what I was trying to say is that genetics are obviously involved, but the dominant 3 bar pattern is most dominant and will be shown in the major majority of clowns if given a proper growout environment. My incomplete thought process on the nakeds, snow flakes, etc. was that breeders were reporting a "slight" increase in the variant occuring in the fry of variant displaying parents, but the majority of their offspring still showed the dominant 3 bar pattern. I hope that makes more sense.

This seems comparable to human genetic disorders where many people are carriers, but it takes stress to bring out the variant and you will notice an increase in probability of offspring displaying the variant if both parents are carriers.

 

[tedr]

Gentlemen, I'm just amazed that what I thought was a simple posting has resulted in a WEALTH of knowledge. Kuddos to you all for passing all this info on to us neophytes.