At a loss with trying to add new fish.

[risin]

Short story I upgraded to a 250gal tank about 5 weeks ago, and I want to add more fish. I don't see aggression at any time after adding the new fish. The new fish typically hide immediately which is expected. Over the next couple days they generally hide and come out for a short while to eat a bit. On the third or fourth day they turn up dead or are completely missing. I haven't added fish for a long time, and have always been very successful in the past.

Aside from this issue, everything is going great. SPS, LPS, Paly, acans, anemones, all growing with good coloration. Current fish residents look to be in perfect health and include:

- Sailfin Tang (9 years)
- Ocellaris Clown trio (9 years)
- Coral Beauty dwarf angel (9 years)
- Kole Tang (4 years)
- Orange Shoulder Tang (2 years)

Few weeks ago I added a pair of ruby red scooter blennies (I have a ton of pods). I drip acclimated them for a little over an hour. On the fourth day one turned up dead and I never saw the other one. I've heard these are sensitive fish, so I wasn't too concerned about the overall health of my tank, just disappointed.

This past weekend I opted for some hardier options. I added a blue reef chromis and a chalk bass. For the first 2 days chromis was in and out of hiding and ate every meal (twice a day or more). chromis turned up dead on the third day; didn't have any noticeable blemishes. The chalk bass has been hiding from the get go, and is very skittish. He is a good hider (saw him yesterday) and I suspect he is dead by now as well.

I'm not sure where to start as my tank is doing better than ever, and looks great.... The only thing I can think of is aggression but I never witness it if it is occurring. Ideas?

Only thing I can think of is to put a small tank inline to see if a new fish makes it. If it doesn't there may be some water quality issues; otherwise, I would assume aggression.... If it were something like a Euclid Worm I wouldn't expect to find bodies, ever.

 

[Marshall O]

I would suggest using an acclimation box next time you go to add a fish. You have some long established semi-aggressive fish in there, so it wouldn't surprise me if they would harass new fish.

 

[risin]

I was just reading about acclimation boxes.... Looks like I'll be building one this weekend. I'll post back here with the results. Really hoping this works so I can get my school of Anthias.

 

[IUfan]

This was a recommended read to me, helped me a lot! Practiced the methods in the thread and works very well.

Going to pass along, worth a read.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2415839&highlight=drip+acclimation

This could be your issue if the new fish are shipped to you. I still practice this method with store bought fish as they are still kept at salinity of 28ppt thats a big adjustment for a drip acclimate of any amount of time. Having a different tank and raising salinity slowly 1-2ppt a day and then transferring across when salinity matches works like a charm.

Before someone told me, I had no idea stores or retailers kept fish in anything other than 33-35ppt. Then when I found out it's more like 28ppt I was shocked and can never understand why they recommend drip acclimation for such a big adjustment.

 

[Betta132]

Just put the new guy in the acclimation box and see who looks angry at him. I don't think the little clowns are the culprits... I'd bet on the sailfin. Do the dead fish have any visible marks?

 

[risin]

Just put the new guy in the acclimation box and see who looks angry at him. I don't think the little clowns are the culprits... I'd bet on the sailfin. Do the dead fish have any visible marks?

no visible marks; I usually see the cleaner shrimp picking at a fairly normal looking fish. the sailfin doesn't go after anything but his reflection; which he tries to murder daily. Based on one previous incident; I'm going to assume the kole tang. I don't think it's the clowns, they won't go 6 inches from their anemone farm.

The fish store I bought from recently keeps their fish at 35ppt, and they always look healthy/eat.

Even though I have never seen it I have to assume it's aggression at this point. The fish seem terrified the second they go in... The sailfin does rush them at first, but never bites or pursues. I'm pretty sure he is checking if it's food.

I'm planning on trying another chromis after I get the social acclimation box built.

 

[snorvich]

do you happen to have a fire cleaner shrimp?

That would have no effect on the situation.

 

[saltyair]

Wish you good luck
If it's aggression an acclimation box can help.
Do you put the new fish in with lights turned off? This always is a good practice.
I would also check ph

 

[risin]

These recent attempt I put lights on dusk and put some nori on the opposite side of the tank. I will release from the acclimation box in darkness. I have high hopes for the animation box.



It was so easy early on. Seemed like any fish did fine. I just haven't tried to add to their community in years.



On a positive note, I saw the chalk bass hidden and alive. I'm sure he's thinning by now. Hopefully I can get him in the box before it's too late. I had no idea these guys could change color so drastically.

 

[Puffyluv]

I think we would all be surprised at a fire shrimp killing even a small fish.

Perhaps you mean a coral banded shrimp.

 

[Reef Frog]

Are you certain the LFS salinity is at 35? I would test it myself. I think the drip method is all wrong for fish. It's sfressful. I'd just temp acclimate and put him in the water right away if bag and tank salinity match.

This is where the QT is golden. Fish can adjust in peace, you can monitor them, they get used to your food, etc. Its just not about disease.

An more unlikely but possible explanation is that the LFS has a supply chain problem like exposure to excessive hear or cold, unseen disease, general stress or who knows what. Good luck!

 

[Puffyluv]

Why is that so weird? A good LFS will try to keep salinity close to what their customers keep it at, right? I know we do at ours.

Though, yeah, agreed...sure is nothing like testing yourself to be sure!

 

[tc2007]

LFS keep it low to save on salt and helps with parasites.

 

[Puffyluv]

I am an LFS, lol...I keep it what aquarists do to save on disappointed customers, and to help with not-death in the delicate time adjusting to a new tank. There are better ways to combat parasites. Keeping the salt level what some LFS do helps with a whole lot of nothing, in the end. It isn't low enough to rid fish of any sort of parasite...hypo-salinity is a viable treatment for ich...but 1.022 isn't hypo. You won't see a big impact on ich until it hits maybe 1.01something.

 

[Reef Frog]

Good job Pufy that's the right way to go IMO. I've seen a LFSer or two, in the rare case they actually tell an obviously new aquarists about this issue, that it's a good thing bc it "prevents disease," it's a shame...so many Nemos dead...

I imagine that this could be a good selling point for your store. So I guess you get your stock from a wholesaler at low salinity and adjust them to 1.026 or so? Sounds like s big job. Ever thought about opening a store in Maryland?

 

[Puffyluv]

Aw, thanks! Well, I kind of have it easy because we order all our fish from Sustainable Aquatics. As they are all tank bred, or at least already captive conditioned, we don't even drip them. And since I am paranoid about disease, we draw some water from our systems, and put some formalin in there with an airstone. They stay there for an hour, then we plunk them in the tank. The next batch is going to have a prazi dip also...I just had a bout with brook at home (not fish from SA) that made me paranoid about it at the shop.

I know it seems harsh...but if there will be death, I want it on my hands...protecting my customers from experiencing loss. And on the bright side, I have never lost a fish this way. I DID lose a couple last month to nemotoads...and I believe those DID come in on SA fish...but the new prazi regime should zap that....(already treated my systems of course) I have an ex vet that helps me...brings me praziquil and formalin and stuff...chloraquil when I needed it from improper dipping...I am VERY lucky to have him!!! We do have a vet in town that treats fish, and I have used him before, too...but he is waaay more expensive than my friend!!!

Lol, open another? Doing things the right way gets tough and time consuming, and isn't always that profitable, lol...tell you what, find me someone with 25,000 who is already independently wealthy and wouldn't care if they only made about 2.50 an hour...and I will show you another TRF shop. Definitely for the love, lol...cause it can't be for the money!

 

[ca1ore]

Why is that so weird? A good LFS will try to keep salinity close to what their customers keep it at, right?

None of mine do, and I'd certainly put them in the 'good' category. Since vast majority of wholesaler fish come in at lower salinity, a proper acclimation has to be done at some point. Frankly, I'd rather my LFS keep their fish at wholesale salinity levels as I figure I'll do the acclimation in my QT system better.

 

[risin]

At this point I have no reason to suspect the lfs is to blame. I trust them for reasons beyond having healthy fish. However I will make sure to verify the salinity on future purchases. I am curious to see what I happens aggression wise with the social acclimation box.



The chalk bass actually ate a little yesterday so he might actually make it.



Also I believe the fire shrimp comments are eluding to the reason for not finding the corpse. Not the actual death of the fish. I have had my cleaner shrimp shame me by dragging a corpse across the front of the tank.

 

[Reef Frog]

It's possible that the LFS got a compromised shipment from the wholesaler. But this is unlikely to be the root cause, but is a possibility. Good deal on the chalkie.

 

[Puffyluv]

None of mine do, and I'd certainly put them in the 'good' category. Since vast majority of wholesaler fish come in at lower salinity, a proper acclimation has to be done at some point. Frankly, I'd rather my LFS keep their fish at wholesale salinity levels as I figure I'll do the acclimation in my QT system better.

Aw...and here I was thinking I was doing hobbyists a favor, essentially doing QT for them. Sorry to know not everyone appreciates it...