Auto water change and auto topoff

[gorally]

I am rebuilding my 180G and want to put together a auto water change and auto topoff. I have the Apex controller installed but nothing designed for those perspective. Can anyone share the idea of how the two can co-exist. My problem with this is how can I dsign a system that know how much water to be changed (daily) at the same time will do the topoff as well. What kind of equipment should I get?

Thanks.

 

[scuzy]

you could get multiples ATO system for the apex. One ATO is for water change. Set apex to turn on a pump in the aquarium to be on say 15 minutes a day and have it trigger the ATO for water change. Then you set the water change ATO to pump in new saltwater from a bucket until it's topped off. The second ATO is to monitor evaporated water and you have it pump fresh RO/DI water in. If you want a continuous water change system maybe a litermeter 3 will work better?

 

[gorally]

you could get multiples ATO system for the apex. One ATO is for water change. Set apex to turn on a pump in the aquarium to be on say 15 minutes a day and have it trigger the ATO for water change. Then you set the water change ATO to pump in new saltwater from a bucket until it's topped off. The second ATO is to monitor evaporated water and you have it pump fresh RO/DI water in. If you want a continuous water change system maybe a litermeter 3 will work better?

Does that mean the ATO for saltwater is determined by the minute and the ATO for RO/DI is determined by the float switch. That is the only way this will work. Otherwise, I am worried there will be too much saltwater, high salilty or the water change will trigger the RO/DI topoff as well.

 

[Flaring Afro]

I think you would have to set it up so the ATO system would be turned off for an hour a day and let the water change system drain and the fill with time to spare during the ATO off time. Otherwise the ATO would start adding water during the change.

 

[scuzy]

you can have the two ATO on two seperate areas of the tank. The ATO for water change will most likely be in your display tank thus will not effect the ATO unit in your sump.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use auto topoff and auto water changes together just fine.

The water change is slow and doesn't change the sump water level at all since in and out is simultaneous. I use a dual head Reef Filler on a timer for that purpose. I change 1% daily, actually in several 15 minute periods each day.

For auto top off, I use Reef Fillers on float switches.

 

[Reeferhead]

I use a dual head reef filler as well for my auto water changes. Runs once a day controlled by my Apex. I also have a conductivity probe hooked up to the apex to shut the reef filler off if the salinity drifts for whatever reason more than 1 PPT. Its only happened once since I set it up and it was due to improperly mixed salt not the reef filler pump.

I only run it once per day because the old tank water runs to my QT tanks. When I ran it once per hour the ATO foat valves in the QT tanks could never register an evaporative loss so the salinity continued to creep up. Plus the reef filler is loud so it only runs in the afternoon when I'm at work

I use a Level Loc for my topoff but they don't make them anymore, shame.

 

[slief]

My Apex handles my ATO using float switches and an aquamedic dosing pump. For my auto water changer, I use a litermeter III with a secondary pump. The litermeter removes water in very small increments and replaces it in very small increments which have no noticable effect on the sump water level. The end result is that the ATO and Litermeter coexist just fine. My Apex acts as a failsafe for the water changer. I monitor salinity as well as high and low sump levels. If any parameters such as salinity, high sump level, low sump level or water on the floor are present, than both the ATO and Litermeter are shut off and alarms are triggered.

 

[tkeracer619]

I use auto topoff and auto water changes together just fine.

The water change is slow and doesn't change the sump water level at all since in and out is simultaneous. I use a dual head Reef Filler on a timer for that purpose. I change 1% daily, actually in several 15 minute periods each day.

For auto top off, I use Reef Fillers on float switches.

This is the best way to do it.

 

[gorally]

This is the best way to do it.

Does the dual head allow me set both heads to discard say 2 g/day from saltwater tank and my tank at the same time. How long will it takes for 2G/day? and how noisey this pump is? My tank is in the basement behind a dry wall enclosure. Does this has a nose level of a vaccum?

 

[tkeracer619]

Its not silent but its not a big deal because it doesn't run all the time. Look up "reef filler" pumps. They have many different sizes. It is a diaphragm pump so it will move equal amounts of water per motor revolution.

The longer you run it the more water you move. But you will probably only be operating for short periods at a time.

Does not sound like a vacuum.

 

[Reeferhead]

Sounds like an electric can opener to me, though perhaps not quite as loud.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Reef Fillers are too loud for living room use. Use a peristaltic pump if that is the location. Mine are in my basement, and even then, I can hear them if I listen closely and the room is quiet.

 

[Zebodog]

Connect the float switche(s) through a breakout box to the Apex. You can use the same switch for both ATO and water changes.

You can then use a feed cycle, or predetermined time, to specify which pump activates in response to the open switch.

 

[gorally]

Connect the float switche(s) through a breakout box to the Apex. You can use the same switch for both ATO and water changes.

You can then use a feed cycle, or predetermined time, to specify which pump activates in response to the open switch.

Do I use the float switch to stop the water flow from both pumps? or do I use time to determine when to stop. I figure if I use float switch to determine when to stop, the second time I run the feed cycle, the pump might not start because the water level has not dropped.

 

[Zebodog]

Connect 3 pumps through your EB8 (waste salt, fresh salt and ATO)

Calculate how much time it takes your waste pump to empty the desired quantity of water from your system.

Create a virtual outlet using either a feed cycle to activate or a predetermined amount of time. During normal operation the outlet is OFF, however at water change time the outlet is ON.

Run the waste pump for the time you calculated above.

For your ATO pump, use the following (or similiar) depending on how your switch is wired.

If Switch1 = CLOSED Then ON
If Outlet Virtual1 = ON Then OFF

For your saltwater pump, use the following (or similiar):

If Switch1 = Closed Then ON
If Outlet Virtual1 = OFF Then OFF

As long as the virtual outlet is on, the ATO pump will remain off and the new saltwater pump will run until the switch changes state.

 

[gorally]

Connect 3 pumps through your EB8 (waste salt, fresh salt and ATO)

Calculate how much time it takes your waste pump to empty the desired quantity of water from your system.

Create a virtual outlet using either a feed cycle to activate or a predetermined amount of time. During normal operation the outlet is OFF, however at water change time the outlet is ON.

Run the waste pump for the time you calculated above.

For your ATO pump, use the following (or similiar) depending on how your switch is wired.

If Switch1 = CLOSED Then ON
If Outlet Virtual1 = ON Then OFF

For your saltwater pump, use the following (or similiar):

If Switch1 = Closed Then ON
If Outlet Virtual1 = OFF Then OFF

As long as the virtual outlet is on, the ATO pump will remain off and the new saltwater pump will run until the switch changes state.

Thank you for the information. I still have to read the Apex manual as not sure how the scripting works. In this case, I assume you use the waste and fresh salt water the same spec pumps. The ATO is controlled by the float switch, correct?

 

[Zebodog]

You don't need to spec both pumps the same; as long as they are relatively close together it shouldn't cause much problem. They key will be ensuring that the virtual outlet remains on long enough for the fresh salt pump to fill back up before the outlet changes state. Set the time on the feed cycle or predetermined time 3X-5X as long as the waste pump runs and you should be okay.

In this case the Apex is essentially the ATO. The float switch tells the pump to when to turn on or off based on the water level.

I would encourage you to use a redundant float switch mounted an inch or two above the main switch. This would act as a safeguard in the event the first one craps out.

Here's some very basic code with 3 pumps and 2 float switches that should do what you want. The second float switch is a redundancy only to prevent floods.
VO_WC is a virtual outlet, PMP_WASTE is the waste salt water pump, PMP_ATO is your fresh top off water (or kalk) pump, PMP_SLT is the fresh salt water pump.

In this example the waste pump runs for 5 minutes; you would obviously adjust that for your own application.

VO_WC
Set OFF
If Time 1800 to 1900 Then ON

PMP_WASTE
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 1805 to 1810 Then ON

PMP_ATO
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Switch1 = CLOSED Then ON
Defer 000:15 Then ON
If Outlet VO_WC = ON Then OFF
If Switch2 = OPEN then OFF

PMP_SLT
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Switch1 = CLOSED Then ON
Defer 000:15 Then ON
If Outlet VO_WC = OFF then OFF
If Switch2 = OPEN Then OFF