automatic water change

[ClownsRCoo]

No sorry I actually have 7518-00 pump heads. You can still use the LS-15 tubing for anything you want to do. You will just end up needing to run the pump at a faster speed than I would. Here are the flow rate comparisons

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[elFloyd]

Thanks elFloyd, but the link you supplied appears to state that the 7518-12 works with LS-15 tubing, not LS-17 tubing. The reference in the manual to LS-17 tubing is listed on the line above the listing for the pump head Model 7518-12, i.e. it is listed for pump head Model No. 7518-10, which is a different model. Am I mistaken or missing something here?

My mistake, perhaps I shouldn't be posting a 1:00 am! You are correct! I hope the link at least confirms tube size.

 

[SkyReef]

No sorry I actually have 7518-00 pump heads. You can still use the LS-15 tubing for anything you want to do. You will just end up needing to run the pump at a faster speed than I would. Here are the flow rate comparisons

Thanks ClownsRCoo.

So it seems that, in addition to running the pump at a higher speed, as you suggest, I could instead run it for a longer time at a lower speed, i.e. the pump-running intervals will be longer, to achieve the goal of changing 1 gallon per day. Again, I will be using this pump, which has double heads, for an automated water change system. I have a separate Masterflex pump to drive my calcium reactor. And so my question here does not relate to having a pump run constantly for a calcium reactor, but intermittently, for an automated water-change system.

Question: Comparing the smaller-diameter, L/S 15 tubing with the larger-diameter, L/S 17 tubing, how much longer will I have to run the pump (at the same RPMs) to exchange a gallon of new saltwater for spent saltwater each day? I ask this question because if using the L/S 15 tubing is that big of a slow-down, hell, I'll just swap out the pump heads for different ones that can use the L/S 17 tubing. How big of a difference does it make? For example, are we talking about running the pump for 10 minutes longer a day through L/S 15 tubing, to exchange a gallon of saltwater, as compared to running it through the L/S 17?

Here is the math:

• There are 3785 mil. in a gallon;
• Operating the Masterflex digital console pump at 50 RPMs with L/S 15 tubing:
  • will yield 85 mil. of saltwater exchanged per minute; and
  • Running the pump for about 45 minutes per day, will exchange 1 gallon of saltwater per day;
• On a 100-gallon, net-water-volume setup (display tank water and sump water), this gallon-a-day exchange will amount to ~ 30% water change per month; and
• By the way, is that sufficient?

Operating the pump in the same manner, but using the L/S 17 tubing will:

• yield 140 mil. of saltwater exchanged per minute;
• running the pump for about 27 minutes per day, will exchange 1 gallon of saltwater per day;
• Bottom line: 45 minutes per day versus 27 minutes per day amounts to about 50% greater power consumption on utility bills; and
• That's kind of a big deal.

I think I might swap out the Easy-Load II pump heads for larger pump heads, to permit me to use L/S 17 tubing, instead of the L/S 15 tubing.

Am I correct here? Are there other considerations that I am overlooking? Has anyone actually set up his or her automated water-changing system, using L/S 15 tubing, instead of L/S tubing? If so, what's that like?

Thank you for your help.

 

[ClownsRCoo]

I think you are putting too much value on the electrical consumption. I don't know exactly ho many watts these pumps use off the top of my head but it can't be anything noticeable on your bill even if running at 100% power. I don't think you would be able to see the difference at all to justify actually saving any money. You would just be out the cost of the new pump heads in the end. I would just use what you have and let it run longer. If you don't want to run it for 45 min at a time then break it up over a 3 hr period where you run it 15min per hour for 3 hours or something like that.


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[GQuinn]

If you use a dual head pump (masterflex), will your ATO system be effected? Or since you are pumping in/out at the same rate the ATO does not see a difference in the sump level?

 

[ClownsRCoo]

No difference in water level


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[SkyReef]

I think you are putting too much value on the electrical consumption. I don't know exactly ho many watts these pumps use off the top of my head but it can't be anything noticeable on your bill even if running at 100% power. I don't think you would be able to see the difference at all to justify actually saving any money. You would just be out the cost of the new pump heads in the end. I would just use what you have and let it run longer. If you don't want to run it for 45 min at a time then break it up over a 3 hr period where you run it 15min per hour for 3 hours or something like that.


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Thanks, ClownsRCoo. I'll give a test run for sure.

 

[SkyReef]

No difference in water level


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+1 ClownsRCoo.

It's a simultaneous exchange of fresh saltwater and spent saltwater. The ATO is none the wiser.

 

[SkyReef]

30-Minute Cycles of Water Changes?

30-Minute Cycles of Water Changes?

I have a water-change goal of 30 gallons per month. I aim to accomplish that goal on an extremely gradual basis. Specifically, I would program my Apex controller to run my Masterflex pump:

• once every thirty minutes;
• for about a minute each run (for a total run time of two minutes per hour).

Over a 24-hour period, this would exchange about a gallon of water. Given that my pump will be in the garage, noise of twice-hourly pumping is not a factor. I suspect that such tiny, incremental water changes would better mimic the "natural" reef environment than would larger, automated water changes. This might reduce stress to the inhabitants arising from the difference in water parameters of new saltwater coming into the tank. But I could be overstating these benefits.

Anyone see any problems with me doing it this way? Anyone else have experience doing it this way? Thank you for your input.

 

[Sharpimage]

I have a water-change goal of 30 gallons per month. I aim to accomplish that goal on an extremely gradual basis. Specifically, I would program my Apex controller to run my Masterflex pump:

• once every thirty minutes;
• for about a minute each run (for a total run time of two minutes per hour).

Over a 24-hour period, this would exchange about a gallon of water. Given that my pump will be in the garage, noise of twice-hourly pumping is not a factor. I suspect that such tiny, incremental water changes would better mimic the "natural" reef environment than would larger, automated water changes. This might reduce stress to the inhabitants arising from the difference in water parameters of new saltwater coming into the tank. But I could be overstating these benefits.

Anyone see any problems with me doing it this way? Anyone else have experience doing it this way? Thank you for your input.

That is exactly what you want to do and I would assume all people that run awc do

 

[ClownsRCoo]

automatic water change

I don't know that everyone runs their AWC system for that short of periods, that many times a day but it doesn't hurt.

I run mine M-F, for 13 min every hour from 6-10 pm. I prefer to have this happen while I'm home so I can react to anything that might go wrong. Also I leave my weekends AWC free to give me time to refill my containers and mix up new water for the following week.

With my program I change 3g a day. Each time my pump cuts on it's only changing out 3/4 of a gallon of water. There is no way my 200g system is going to feel any parameter swings from such a small amount. I also get the piece of mind of being home while it's doing its thing and I only run my pump 4 times a day vs 24. To me personally I don't see the payoff of doing so many more frequent but smaller changes vs what I'm doing now. I'm doing them enough to not effect a single parameter and stress my tank which is the goal, and the benefits of not running more frequently outweighs the cons. For example my pump will run 7720 times less per year than yours and I can only assume that should correlate to a much longer lifespan for the pump and apex outlet relay.

I'm not dogging your plan but just trying to introduce another viewpoint and explain that there isn't really a wrong way to go about it. To me it can get to a point of diminishing returns. I could go ultra stable and run this thing 1 min on/ 1 min off but how much more and I really gaining and at what cost?




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[SkyReef]

Thanks, ClownsRCoo. You make some reasonable points. I hadn't considered the startup-wear-and-tear notion. I just think it would be super cool to do because the technology allows it, and it would be so natural-like. I'll think it over some more.

 

[ClownsRCoo]

I'm not trying to stop you. Just giving you a different perspective. These are lab grade pumps too designed for this kind of stuff so who is to say you wouldn't get a very long lifespan from them. If that's the plan you want to stick to then try it out and see how you like it


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[SkyReef]

The Display Readout on Masterflex Pumps

The Display Readout on Masterflex Pumps

So my second Masterflex pump, Model No. 7523-20, arrived today, which should allow me to start doing automated water changes. I'm psyched!

I notice that the digital readout of this model has no reference to what the number displayed means. My other Masterflex, Model No. 7523-60, is slightly different. Comparing them side by side in the pictures below, you will see that the LED readout on Model 7523-60 informs the viewer that the number displayed registers the flow pumped, in mL per minute.

However, the LED readout on Model No. 7523-20 does not inform the viewer what the number displayed registers. Is it RPMs? Is it mL per minute? If it's not mL per minute, how do I calibrate flow? By running a manual test of the RPM equivalent of real water pumped out in mL?

Thank you for your help.

Photo of the two pumps, side by side:

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Photo of the readout on Model No. 7523-60:

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Photo of the readout on Model No. 7523-20:

 

[SkyReef]

I couldn't find Masterflex literature on what the displayed LED number measures. But I'll presume for now that the number refers to the number of RPMs of the pump head. According to the flow-rate information published by Masterflex, each rotation of a Masterflex Easy-Load II, Model 7518-12 pump head using LS15 tubing flows 1.7 mL. If I use the larger-diameter tubing of the LS 24 tubing, the pump will flow 2.8 mL per rotation of the pump head! Of, course, I'll use the larger-diameter LS24 tubing to get more flow--equivalent to the LS-17 tubing!

Thus, in order to exchange a gallon of saltwater, the pump will need to flow 3785 mL of saltwater, which will take 1352 revolutions of the pump head. At 50 RPMs per minute, this will only take 27 minutes of pumping per day! Which brings us back to the idea of how to flow it out during the course of a day. If anyone knows that my assumptions and math are wrong, please let me know.

Otherwise, I'm going to go for it, at an Apex-controlled flow rate of 1 minute and 8 second pumped every hour, on the hour, for a total of 27 minutes per day. I'll report back if I run into any problems. Thanks for the great thread!

 

[GQuinn]

I use a stenner and here's mine. Also I have my mixing pump run for 10 min every hour from 6-10 to mix the water again and make sure the salinity is equal throughout. Then my stenner cuts on for 20 min after that to change the water. The process repeats 4 times every hour and runs 5 days a week. That gives me all weekend to refill my salt container for the next week. I have an optical sensor as well in case my water level in the bin drops too much before I mix up a new batch. Don't want to be pulling water from my sump without putting anything back in. Here are my programs

Mixing pump:
OSC 000:00/010:00/050:00 Then ON
If Time 22:00 to 17:59 Then OFF
If DoW S-----S Then OFF
If Float OPEN Then OFF

Stenner
Set OFF
OSC 010:00/020:00/030:00 Then ON
If Time 22:00 to 17:59 Then OFF
If DoW S-----S Then OFF
If Float OPEN Then OFF


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Thanks for the program reference. What type of sensor are you using on your supply container.

 

[ClownsRCoo]

Apex optical sensor


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[SkyReef]

Temporary Automated Water Change Station at Temporary Tank

Temporary Automated Water Change Station at Temporary Tank

Still building my new 80 gallon reef tank. In the meantime, my livestock was transferred from my defunct 75 gallon reef tank to a temporary tank (a second 80 gallon tank). Before I run lines from the automated water change system through the crawl space beneath the floor, I wanted to test it on the temporary tank set up.

Works great. So before it gets incorporated into my Apex system on my new tank that is still being finished, I set up the automated water change system on my temporary tank, using a simple timer on a power strip. The spent water will be pulled from the aquarium and deposited into the right-side 32-gallon trash can, while new salt water is pulled from the left-side 32-gallon trash can, into the tank, via the double-head, Masterflex pump. The timer is set to change 1 gallon per day, from 6:00 a.m. to 6:30 a.m. each day.

I already tested it manually. Works like a charm. Thanks for the idea, guys!

Pictures:

Whole Setup: Temporary Aquarium, Masterflex Pump, and Trash Cans, containing new and spent salt water.

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Trash cans: Spent water into right can; new water from left can.

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Masterflex Pump: Double-head pump.

 

[Lmax8rn]

I am currently using a Stenner for automatic water changes. I set it up on a timer, runs every 1 1/2 hrs and changes a 1/2 gallon at a time. I have a total of 8 gallons a day on my 240 gallon display with a 110 gallon sump. REALLY nice! Sure makes things easier. Now, if they would only invent something that automatically cleans the glass!

 

[GQuinn]

What kind of tubing is everyone using from the pump to the tank. I thought I would use 1/4 ro tubing but the Masterflex doser I purchased tubing has larger nipples, possibly for 3/8 tubing.