After moving 2 years ago and tearing everything down I have started up again. My new setup is a 100 gallon acrylic 60x24x16. I'm currently running 4 t5 ho over it however want to look into L.E.D. Being only 16" deep I wasn't sure what would work best. I also have a 10" tall canopy over tank. The tank will mostly house soft coral, LPS, and zoos. Any suggestions?
Back again lighting question
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stingeragent
New member
3 kessil 160's or 360's. 2-3 mars aqua led 16", euphotica 16", photon 16", 2 euphotica 24", 2 photon 24". This is 3 euphotica 16's over my 125. The euphotica brand is basically a clone of the photons. have softies, lps, sps
MeghanisradxD
New member
Mars Aqua LEDs are great. They are inexpensive and grow just about any soft coral or LPS. I have seen people grow beautiful SPS with them as well with supplemental dosing.
After an awful lot of research into LED lighting recently my recommendation would be the Kessil 160's for a tank that shallow and with the coral you are interested in. They seem to provide the best value considering quality, cost, coverage area. That's my opinion although a reasonably informed one. There are A LOT of opinions regarding what LED to buy buy and if you are willing to put the effort into the research I can only recommend focusing on the science of light, understanding the light spectrum and what is useful for coral vs what looks nice, and differences in quality between the components that are used and the way in which the LED's are controlled.
RxReefer
New member
Many people seem to be getting best results from using a hybrid of lighting technology by combing T5 with LED to get full coverage and control of desired spectrum. I've heard alot of positives about Kessil as well with Radion for the top of the line LEDs. As far as T5 goes either Giesemann or ATI seem to dominate.
I forgot to mention that the life span on LEDs is exaggerated by manufacturers so don't expect to get the same PAR for 10 years with the same LED fixture. Radion allow you to upgrade their pucks which is nice.
I forgot to mention that the life span on LEDs is exaggerated by manufacturers so don't expect to get the same PAR for 10 years with the same LED fixture. Radion allow you to upgrade their pucks which is nice.
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seamonster124
New member
Also very happy with Mars Aqua
NS Mike D
New member
This may be the best information on LEDs and how different light spectrums affect corals.
It won't tell you which lights to go with, but it will give you scientific information to validate the anecdotal information on LEDs. LEDs can dial in very specific spectrums, but we have more research to be done in understanding just what much and how much corals need of each of these spectrums to meet the dual needs of photosynthesis and the visual desires of the reef keeper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7rpUQEorDU
It won't tell you which lights to go with, but it will give you scientific information to validate the anecdotal information on LEDs. LEDs can dial in very specific spectrums, but we have more research to be done in understanding just what much and how much corals need of each of these spectrums to meet the dual needs of photosynthesis and the visual desires of the reef keeper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7rpUQEorDU
Ron Reefman
Active member
If spread is an issue, and it should be, then any fixture with leds spread around should work OK. Just make sure you are getting 3 watt leds so you have lights powerful enough to penetrate 24" deep. Stay away from Marineland and Current fixtures using 0.3 and 0.5 watt leds.
If budget is an issue, and it is for most people, I've seen Chinese fixtures for as low as $65 that can cover a 2'x2' at 2' deep and grow healthy coral. If you want more control of color balance and timing (sunrise/sunset controllers), there are fixtures that cost a bit more, like $200 and up. If you want crazy control of color, absolute timing control and fancy remote control, you can have that for $700 and up. They all cover the same basic 2'x2' footprint in a 24" deep tank. Decide the features you want and how much you want to pay.
Personally I'm OK basic blue and 'white' channel control. I'd love 3 or 4 channel control, but I haven't seen much of it yet and it's more expensive (for now) than I want to spend. I want good timing control. I personally want sunrise, midday, sunset and moonlight control. I'm retired and get to play with my tanks at various times of day, so I like the ability to mimic the sun. Is it important to the corals and fish? Not too much if at all, but I like it and I'm willing to pay for it. I want the setting of my fixture time and color preferences to be as easy as possible. Mine are a bit of a pain as I have to spend 10-15 minutes to do a full re-set of parameters on 3 fixtures over my 2 DT's. I'd like it to be easier, but I'm not willing to pay a huge amount of money for a small extra convenience. Being able to control my fixture from far away while I'm on vacation is silly and pointless to me. Just make the programming easier to get into the fixture. Allow me to do the programming of times and power levels into a remote while I'm in a different place (like watching a football game in another room) and then I can get near the fixture and with the touch of a button or two, it downloads into the fixture. That's easy enough.
So I'd be willing to upgrade if the right set of features came along. But I'm happy with my 3 year old EverGrow IT2080 fixtures which have only gone down about 10% in price over the last 3 years. Now they have legs and cost the same, but I don't need legs. Offer me 3 or 4 channels of color control and easy programming at a price about 10-20% more than I would pay for a new IT2081 or a Photon 32 and I'd give it serious consideration.
If budget is an issue, and it is for most people, I've seen Chinese fixtures for as low as $65 that can cover a 2'x2' at 2' deep and grow healthy coral. If you want more control of color balance and timing (sunrise/sunset controllers), there are fixtures that cost a bit more, like $200 and up. If you want crazy control of color, absolute timing control and fancy remote control, you can have that for $700 and up. They all cover the same basic 2'x2' footprint in a 24" deep tank. Decide the features you want and how much you want to pay.
Personally I'm OK basic blue and 'white' channel control. I'd love 3 or 4 channel control, but I haven't seen much of it yet and it's more expensive (for now) than I want to spend. I want good timing control. I personally want sunrise, midday, sunset and moonlight control. I'm retired and get to play with my tanks at various times of day, so I like the ability to mimic the sun. Is it important to the corals and fish? Not too much if at all, but I like it and I'm willing to pay for it. I want the setting of my fixture time and color preferences to be as easy as possible. Mine are a bit of a pain as I have to spend 10-15 minutes to do a full re-set of parameters on 3 fixtures over my 2 DT's. I'd like it to be easier, but I'm not willing to pay a huge amount of money for a small extra convenience. Being able to control my fixture from far away while I'm on vacation is silly and pointless to me. Just make the programming easier to get into the fixture. Allow me to do the programming of times and power levels into a remote while I'm in a different place (like watching a football game in another room) and then I can get near the fixture and with the touch of a button or two, it downloads into the fixture. That's easy enough.
So I'd be willing to upgrade if the right set of features came along. But I'm happy with my 3 year old EverGrow IT2080 fixtures which have only gone down about 10% in price over the last 3 years. Now they have legs and cost the same, but I don't need legs. Offer me 3 or 4 channels of color control and easy programming at a price about 10-20% more than I would pay for a new IT2081 or a Photon 32 and I'd give it serious consideration.
Ron Reefman, you say to get 3 watt LEDs so the light has enough power but isn't the Watt rating related to the amount of power required to power the LED... not how much it produces?
It seems that what is more important is the LED output measured in PAR. A 1W, 3W 5W LED may all produce the same amount of output depending on how efficient the LED is. This LED efficiency is one of the things that differentiates low end and high end LED's.
It seems that what is more important is the LED output measured in PAR. A 1W, 3W 5W LED may all produce the same amount of output depending on how efficient the LED is. This LED efficiency is one of the things that differentiates low end and high end LED's.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Not all... maybe even most, led fixture suppliers offer a PAR map for you to see. Some do, most don't, especially with inexpensive Chinese made fixtures (and even some higher priced fixtures from US companies). So how do you judge if a fixture produces enough PAR? You are left to consider other criteria, like led wattage, how hard the led is driven, and how many leds are in the fixture. All I'm saying is that in my experience, fixtures with 3w leds usually produce more PAR at 24" deep than fixtures with 0.3 or 0.5w leds.
I have a PAR meter and do a lot of checking of PAR levels for people in our local club because not many want to spend $300 for a decent PAR meter you rarely use. I've found that even cheap Chinese fixtures with 3w leds run at 2.2 watts of power can create 200 PAR at 24" deep in a tank and cover a 2'x2' area. On the other hand, I have found that Marineland and Current, who drive leds at 0.3 and 0.5 watts don't penetrate 24" with that kind of PAR. They try and make up for it by using a lot more leds and they make good PAR at 12", but it falls off pretty dramatically from there on down.
It was always my opinion, but then I was referred to one of their websites and they showed a PAR map and they even showed that they don't produce anything remotely close to 200 PAR at 24".
I'm sorry, but a PAR of 5 to 20 at 24" isn't enough for even zoas or softies to be healthy and grow. Even the 20 to 40 PAR at 12" to 18" is kind of iffy for some of the soft corals we keep.
You are right about the difference in PAR output between cheap 3w leds and high end 3w leds. That difference is real, but relatively small. The difference in output between any 3w led and any 0.5w led is much bigger. Even with 2 or 3 times as many leds, the 0.5w leds don't get PAR 24" deep anywhere close to as well as a fixture with half as many 3w leds (even when driven at only 2.2 watts).
I have a PAR meter and do a lot of checking of PAR levels for people in our local club because not many want to spend $300 for a decent PAR meter you rarely use. I've found that even cheap Chinese fixtures with 3w leds run at 2.2 watts of power can create 200 PAR at 24" deep in a tank and cover a 2'x2' area. On the other hand, I have found that Marineland and Current, who drive leds at 0.3 and 0.5 watts don't penetrate 24" with that kind of PAR. They try and make up for it by using a lot more leds and they make good PAR at 12", but it falls off pretty dramatically from there on down.
It was always my opinion, but then I was referred to one of their websites and they showed a PAR map and they even showed that they don't produce anything remotely close to 200 PAR at 24".
I'm sorry, but a PAR of 5 to 20 at 24" isn't enough for even zoas or softies to be healthy and grow. Even the 20 to 40 PAR at 12" to 18" is kind of iffy for some of the soft corals we keep.
You are right about the difference in PAR output between cheap 3w leds and high end 3w leds. That difference is real, but relatively small. The difference in output between any 3w led and any 0.5w led is much bigger. Even with 2 or 3 times as many leds, the 0.5w leds don't get PAR 24" deep anywhere close to as well as a fixture with half as many 3w leds (even when driven at only 2.2 watts).
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Thanks for replies. Tank is 60"x24"x16" about anything will penetrate the 16" depth I would think. My biggest issue is how high I can mount the lights with the canopy only 10 inch the black box lights would only be about 6" off top of water or so. Can I tune the Mars Aqua down enough to keep from burning the corals. Don't want to bleach anything or close up the softies.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Yes, most any light will penetrate 16" deep, but is it enough light? The Current chart looks like about a 20 to 40 PAR. If you are just doing zoas and softies, it will keep them alive... mostly.
The black boxes can be dimmed down very low, that shouldn't even be a consideration.
The OceanRevive T245 or S026 are thinner than the other black box fixtures, have built-in timers for on/off of each channel and digital control of teh power sttings from 0 to 100% in single digit increments (it's not a sunrise/sunset controller, it's a digital dimmer). They are a sponsor here and have a forum down in the sponsor section if you want to talk to them or see what others have to say about them.
Some people cut a hole in the top of their canopy and set the fixture on top. It gets the face further away from the water and allows for better ventilation to keep the fixture cooler and out of the salty air that can cause rust.
The black boxes can be dimmed down very low, that shouldn't even be a consideration.
The OceanRevive T245 or S026 are thinner than the other black box fixtures, have built-in timers for on/off of each channel and digital control of teh power sttings from 0 to 100% in single digit increments (it's not a sunrise/sunset controller, it's a digital dimmer). They are a sponsor here and have a forum down in the sponsor section if you want to talk to them or see what others have to say about them.
Some people cut a hole in the top of their canopy and set the fixture on top. It gets the face further away from the water and allows for better ventilation to keep the fixture cooler and out of the salty air that can cause rust.
Ron Reefman
Active member
I think you made a good decision as far as having enough light.
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