back up power systems

[Homebrew]

I was looking for a portable gasoline generator, but after lots of research and investigation I have decided to get a Generac home generator. It is relatively quiet and runs off natural gas or propane. They are in nice cabinets and you don't have to worry about gasoline or diesel storage. Currently at Home Depot they cost $2600 and they run 10 home circuits and INCLUDE automatic transfer switch, 30 ft. wiring harness, and breakers. The model that runs 12 circuits is $3000, but 10 is normally enough to run an aquarium (plus some comfort for the wife and kids)! These units have really come down in price over the past few years. HD will contract the installation for $1000 extra, but my father-in-law is a master electrician... so.... no cost there for me. I have quite a bit of electrical experience and the unit comes with connection instructions, so I would do it with or without my father-in-law, but he'll be around to keep me honest.

$2600 may be a bit pricey for "just" an aquarium, but if you are dropping a bunch of money on a decent UPS or portable gas generator, spending a bit more will get you some home comfort, automatic power outage transfer, much longer run time, safer fuel source and better reliability.

 

[BeanAnimal]

SO the point is not lost in the anecodte about powering the neighbor hood....

the REAL reason for the transfer switch is to prevent backfeed into the power lines. This proves deadly for several linemen every year. During an outage they get electrocuted buy idiot DIYers who energize the transmission lines with their generators!

Bean

 

[ReeferMac]

$2600 may be a bit pricey for "just" an aquarium, but if you are dropping a bunch of money on a decent UPS or portable gas generator, spending a bit more will get you some home comfort, automatic power outage transfer, much longer run time, safer fuel source and better reliability.

??? MY gas generator was $550 USD on sale. $2600 (+$1K install, we don't all have master electrician and gas pipe fitters in our family's ), is not "a bit more" mate.

One you can justify as a Christmas present to the family, the other costs what some people spend on a car!

- Mac

 

[sailfinreef]

you can get a descent size generator installed with a manual transfer switch and a 20 ckt. panel for about $1400. they are nice, you can run your furnace, refridgerater, hot water heater, aquarium etc. they are well worth it.

 

[gabe21804]

<b>Bean</b>: I use Gel Cell Batteries all the time in fire alarms, there required by code, and as per manufactures requirements I must change them every 5 years(There life is not 2 years, its 5 years if proper precautions are taken). Over the last 10+ years of dealing with Gel Cell's Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve never seen a Gel Cell lose its ability to perform to its original specifications before the 5 year mark. Were also talking about normal usage which would include a full discharge (Not a deep discharge), ever 6 months. Gel Cell's specifically state do allow them to be put into a state where they are deep discharged, a voltage of 10.5 on a 12V setup. Also you can not rapidly recharge a gel cell, this is not good for it either, and it has to be slowly recharged over a period of 24 hours or more to achieve optimum battery life.

Things Gel Cells are used in:
Fire Alarms
Card Access Systems
Medical Equipment in hospitals
Security Systems
CCTV Systems
UPS Systems

If they were such an issue would they be industry standard in so many of these devices?

So in short, I see nothing wrong with Gel Cellââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s; I get them at a large discount, and use them in my backup system. When I did my practice run it ran my system for 9.5 hours before my preventing circuit turned it off to prevent a full discharge. When I turned the power back on, it slowly charged them back to there full capacity in roughly 24 hours.

I agree that price is a factor, but if you have access to Gel Cell's at a discounted rate, or they are free....feel free to use them. I've had no issues at all on either my aquarium backup system, or in daily life when I use them installations on a daily basis.

I'm not trying to start an argument; I'm just throwing a different point of view from someone who uses Gel Cell's all the time.

 

[emelton]

I have an APC smart UPS 1500VA. customized with triple battery storage capacity.

It will run my aux return Mag5 pump for circulation only for 12+ hours.
My normal circulation pump is a mag 12. When the power goes the mag 5 kicks in. Its a beautiful thing. Not bad since I got it from work for free. This gives me time to get the generator out.
Still looking into automatic generator backup though.

 

[Runner]

??? MY gas generator was $550 USD on sale. $2600 (+$1K install, we don't all have master electrician and gas pipe fitters in our family's ), is not "a bit more" mate.

One you can justify as a Christmas present to the family, the other costs what some people spend on a car!

- Mac

But that is just a generator. The Home Depot setup includes an automatic transfer switch and an enclosure to help reduce the sound (and hide the ugly componets) as well. The automatic transfer package will kick in even when you are not home -- and return you back to line power when the power is restored.

I've been meaning to do this some time myself -- not just for the aquariums, but for my entire house as well. I'd love to keep some lights and the refrigerator, freezer, and possibly even the heating unit going.

 

[ReeferMac]

Hehe, yeah yeah, I realize it's most 'stuff', but you're missing the point. For some people, a 3-thousand dollar investment, regardless of what it encompasses, is a bit much. 500 bucks is a lot easier for most folks to swallow/justify.

- Mac

 

[Homebrew]

??? MY gas generator was $550 USD on sale. $2600 (+$1K install, we don't all have master electrician and gas pipe fitters in our family's ), is not "a bit more" mate.

One you can justify as a Christmas present to the family, the other costs what some people spend on a car!

- Mac

.... or 1/4 of what many spend on a reef tank! LOL.

I think this is a really good thread because it shows quite a variety of solutions and price ranges to cover short and long term power outages. I currently have UPS for brown-outs and very short blackouts. Even after I install the Generac, I plan on keeping it as a power conditioner and buffer between the power transfer to the generator. I had originally shopped for a gas generator, but dealing with fuel procurement, storage and my laziness (I'd probably end up making my wife drag it out and hook it up during a storm... er... just kidding honey....). So, I've opted for a natural gas gen. Granted, it is too expensive if your only goal is power the average aquarium, but if you have a lot invested and want some human comfort too, then this is probably the way to go.

BTW, Mac, what brand gas generator did you get? Have you used it yet? Do you like it? How long is the run time?

emelton: That was a great idea to use a secondary standby pump that has lower power consumption to get the most out of any type UPS configuration. 12 hours is great! But if you have to add some heat, that will quickly drain any cost effective UPS system. I suppose there could be an ingenious use of transferring heat from a gas cooktop source... but that would be for another DIY thread!

 

[Runner]

Hehe, yeah yeah, I realize it's most 'stuff', but you're missing the point. For some people, a 3-thousand dollar investment, regardless of what it encompasses, is a bit much. 500 bucks is a lot easier for most folks to swallow/justify.

- Mac

Heh. Exactly why I haven't gotten one myself (even though I could install one by myself). It is more of a luxury than a necessity to me. Then again, I have only about $1K (plus a lot of DIY time) invested in my 75G reef tank. Somebody who has $20K may have a different perspective.

-Scott

 

[ReeferMac]

I ended up getting a Troy-bilt generator (Briggs & Stratton Engine, hard to find generators w/ parts Made in America, believe it or not ). Like I said, we caught it on sale, which was a major factor in it's purchase. It has a '12 hour' tank on it.. I've run it up to 8 hours on one tank of gas.

I'd like to get the natural gas powered generator, but.... talked about it w/ the wifey when we purchased ours. During the big NE blackout, we had some uncomfortable moments, and there have been a few incidences during the winter up here for us over the years. Unfortunately, it's just far too much of an investment for us to justify the purchase.

Since getting the generator 2 years ago we've used it 3 times... Only for a couple of hours twice, but once was for 10. Power went out Sunday night, fired everything up and finished watching my Sunday night TV... Topped the generator off, went to bed. Woke up, the neighborhood had power and I killed the generator after my shower. I slept like a Baby knowing my Fishies were safe (she was content knowing she would have hot-water!) I could even go to work (stop home to top off the tank) if I had to.

I understand not wanting to put up w/ the hassle of stocking gasoline and all that fun stuff, but I honestly look at it as a part of living here... like the folks in Florida who deal w/ Hurricanes, we get snow/ice. Power _will_ go out, deal w/ it. Some folks have extra blankets, candles, and a wood-burning stove. Other's get house generators. Some just tough it out. W/ the tank requiring electricity, we had to do something (I know people that heated tank water on their wood-burning stove, not a fun way to spend your evening), and having children was the last straw for approval from the war-department... We just had to keep it w/in our means. I have small quantities of gas on-hand for the snow-blower, and between the tank's in the cars, I've got 2-3 days worth of juice. It's a fact of life in these environments. You go to the store for an extra quart of milk and loaf of bread when the Weatherman say's a storm's coming. I grab the gas-can's and make sure they're topped up when we run up to the corner store on those occasions.

For the amount of use it gets (once, twice a year?), I happy w/ our decision. I'd hate to have a 'summer car' sitting on a concrete pad next to thouse, when I could drive a convertible around town for 4 months out of the year. {Shrug}, just depends on how your value's stack up, and what you want to spend your money on. I'm certainly not opposed to the idea of a whole house generator... it's just beyond the budget of some folks. Besides, who here wouldn't rather drop $500 on a generator, and the balance on their tank!

- Mac

 

[sailfinreef]

the natural gas generators are nice just because you can use an automatic transfer switch and when the power goes out the generator will automatically fire up. they are a bit pricey but $2500 is a price installed for a 55000kva. they really arent as expensive as you think. and you can save you atleast that much when a power outage comes and last a few days, fish tank fridge, freezer, no hot water, no light, etc.

 

[ReeferMac]

LOL! Yeah, sure, leave it to an Electrician from Buffalo to know that first-hand!

- Mac

 

[seaman69]

As mentioned, there seems to be quite a variety of soutions depending on needs and budget.

I have to worry about being away from home for ~14 hours at a time.... so, i need some kind of automatic transfer solution. But, we rarely have any significant outages (24+ hours). I tried a couple of affordable computer UPS and could only get a max of about 5 hrs out of them.

I think I'm going to go with this Tripp Lite APS512 . It looks to be basically a commerical version of Playfair's DIY solution . A couple of additions it has are multiple battery capability, wet or gell cell, and load & battery status indidators.

My question is this... I want to leave this out in the garage. Can anyone tell me what the impact will be to wet cell, gell cell, or AGM batteries if the temps sometimes drop to around freezing in the garage? Would this factor into whether I use wet cell, gell cell, or AGM?

Thanks!

 

[cuda6872]

wow, guess that there is no such thing as a simple & easy answer. the thought of a generator gives me more piece of mind, but sticker shock too. i see that all answers are helpfull & would like to thank everyone for their input. ((much thanks)) now i'm back to lookin for something that isn't going to rob my daughters college funds. lol oh, Ebay!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not to beat the same point up.... BUT

You guys that are going out and buying cheapie computer UPS systems are wasting your money. They do not put out a true sine wave and will either burn up, or burn the pump up.

Even a decent modified sinwave UPS is not suitable.....

Bean

 

[BeanAnimal]

Lead Acid batteries do just fine in freezing weather if they are charged. Yours will be on trickle charge and there is nothing to worry about. If they are in the garage and ventillation is not an issue then I would stick with the wet cells, they are cheaper per VA. Pop the caps off once a month or so and make sure the water levels are good and the terminals are clean.

Bean

 

[Homebrew]

Not to beat the same point up.... BUT

You guys that are going out and buying cheapie computer UPS systems are wasting your money. They do not put out a true sine wave and will either burn up, or burn the pump up.

Even a decent modified sinwave UPS is not suitable.....

Bean

Bean,

Tried to PM you, but your box is full.

According to APC site, the waveform type of the SU1400RM2U UPS is sinewave.

http://www.apcc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SU1400RM2U

I didn't have to spend any money on them originally (they were about $850.00 each new), because they were going to be abandoned at small offices we closed. However, they are aging and will need batteries soon at about $250 each unit. I like the idea of using these because they act as power filters as well as providing short-term power during brown-outs. Do you think this model poses any potential harm for my pumps?

 

[BeanAnimal]

You can purchase batteries much cheaper than the "APC" part. They are all the same. For that unit, they should be about $20 per battery.

Bean

 

[ReeferMac]

Bean, I'm not trying to be a pest, but would you mind explaining the part about the Sine wave? Specifically I'm interested in what it is about the type of power being output by the UPS units that is undesireable (and is that an undesireable trait for pumps only, as the manufacturer's would have you believe it is a desireable thing for your computers).
The reason I ask is I've heard that before (never w/ a satisfactory explanation as to why mind you), and also I'm in the same boat as Homebrew. I got an old APCC1000 from work that was a spare, and put new/fresh batteries in it myself from my local Interstate Battery Supply (was about $150 to reload the unit w/ fresh ones) I use that to power my return pump (Iwaki55) 24/7. In the event of outtage, I get about 1.5 hours off it.

Like I said, it was told to me once before that these units are not good for pumps (they'll burn the motor up), and the only explanation given was the trim capabilities makes it difficult for the pump during startup. I'd really like to know if this truly is going to burn my pump up (Iwaki's ain't cheap!), and understand the reason's why. Thanks for the help.

- Mac