Bad batch of Instant Ocean? Alkalinity through the ROOF!!!

IMO the size of complexity of a company has little or nothing to do with the quality of the product. Ford and GM are huge organizations but this does not mean that they make bad products (okay, okay before anyone flames me about the problems with their Taurus I am making a point here!!!).

What I am saying is that unless the size and complexity of the company has led to lazy QA practices or cutting costs by not doing frequent equipment calibrations or validating a process change, then the day-to-day operations should not be affected. I assume these companies have been making these products for quite a while. And I also assume that they train new operators on the correct mixing procedures (if theyââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢re not computer controlled).

Maybe a lot of assumptions but in my experience this is the norm. Having said that, do mistakes happen? Of course they do. I know of a situation with a company I worked for, where bulk material from a tanker truck was pumped into the wrong storage tank. The mistake was caught before it got into the process (by good QA). IMO what seems to have happened here was a mistake with one (or more) batches or there would be far more instances of problems. How just one bucket of salt in a batch delivered to a particular LFS was ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œbadââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ and how these ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œbadââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ buckets got to different parts of the country ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t know. It depends on how the manufacturer pulls the orders and how many ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œhandsââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ they pass through before they reach the LFS. Maybe LFS owners can let us know if the manufacturer ships direct or through a wholesaler.

One thing that concerns me is that there appears to be no batch codes on the buckets. I know it takes a little extra cost to do this but IMO itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s money well spent for just such a case as this - the manufacturer can determine what plant, machine, day and time the batch was made so they can go back and determine what happened and prevent it from happening again.

Of course it doesnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t help the poor guys like Megalodon and Thomas 712 who lost fish. It would only work if the company found the ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“badââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ batch by routine testing and posted an alert on Forums like RC. Perhaps Megalodon could let us know if, in his talks with IO, he found out about any batch codes.
Cheers
Alan

The above are my opinions and observations based on the information posted in this thread.
 
A little update,
Called Aquarium Systems a few hours ago and my replacement IO bucket is on the way. They also ask for a sample of the bad salt and the slightly high KH sample. Will send it tommorow morning. Seem to me Aquarium Systems is really trying hard to solve this problem while keeping their coustomer happy by replacing anything that is lost due to the bad IO. Luckily, I didn't lost anything due to this. Only problem I have with this is the white residue on my pump and mixing drum. A little vinger and the problem is solve. I owe many thanks to RC and everyone else esspecially Megalodon for addressing this problem and Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley for taking the time to test it. Things could of been worst or even more if it wouldn't be for you.

IO is use and love by many reefer here on RC. I know mostly everyone was very suprise and a little mad at Megalodon when he brought this up untill Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley did the test himself. I know I was. Even more suprise when I found out I have the same problem. Its good to know Aquarium Systems is trying really hard to fix this problem, If they didn't, I wouldn't use IO again.
 
Yeah, that's OK though...

Yeah, that's OK though...

The "IO is the best" people seemed to think I was a bit uncredible and perhaps too newbie at first. Even at J&L Aquatics they doubted my claims with statements like "You know how long this salt's been around don't you?" or "I've used IO for XX years and...." Or constantly being told I had to mix it for at least 24 hours to fix the problem, even though I kept saying I did mix it that long.

But that's behind us now and I don't mind. I would have been skeptical of me at first too until I got more information.

At J&Ls the other day, one of the guys is like "Randy Holmes-Farley?" I'm like, "Oh you read?" Then he's all "Not yet but I heard about it!" He had the Internet on-line right there at the check-out counter, which I find responsible. Apparently he's somewhat of a fan of Randy's articles too.

In any case, I don't want to make J&Ls sound at all bad because they're actually my favourite. For anyone in Canada, ordering through them on-line is the cheapest way to go, they don't have any BS for sale, and they read this forum so obviously they must know what they doing.

I just don't want to sound like anymore of a Negative Nanny than I already have. LOL...

:rollface: :rollface: :rollface: :rollface:
 
I don't know about fixing the problem. I emailed them about it and they told me to send them salt. I have no salt left. A company should know if they had a bad batch or not. I'm pretty sure if they have a bad batch they would of received hundreds of calls by now.Only reason I know its the salt is yesterday
when I went to make more saltr with Ro. I noticed a bunch of litte slit chips. Then I got Randys link thats what happened to the salt and the alk skyrockets. I lost a pair
of clarkis, 3 baggai cardinals, electric blue goby, mating pair of watchmans, yellow tang and some chromis. Im glad that they are willing to give me a bag of salt if I can give them a sample to
to verify. Its greast that they
really stand behind there product. I manage a business tooand if my product is found to have caused the damge I would offer to replace whatever was damged due to the faulty product.
thanks alot to Io all I have is dead fish
 
Victor, send them a sample of your tank water. Tell them that will just have to do.

They should have to replace all those dead fish of yours too if it was because of the bad salt.

I only have bleached LR and two dead cleaner shrimp, so I'm not after very much compensation. The royal gramma came out of hiding unscathed, my cardinal is still kicking, the duster's tube grew back. I don't know how I could put any value on the X amount of damage to 40 pounds of LR though.

I'm going to send AS my salt sample tomorrow but I'm unsure if they'll reimburse me the $22 US for shipping, otherwise I'll mail it and it will take 11 days for them to even receive it and I can't make Bob sign for it.

I keep waking up at one-something in the afternoon and Bob is never there when I call three-hours ahead back east. But I'm going to get him tomorrow.
:smokin:
 
victor90 said:
.... A company should know if they had a bad batch or not. I'm pretty sure if they have a bad batch they would of received hundreds of calls by now.Only reason I know its the salt is yesterday
when I went to make more saltr with Ro. I noticed a bunch of litte slit chips. ....
Click to expand...
How about unscrupulous people who read this tread and file a claim without even have any problem?
 
remember what I said I was doing last night. I took out a tub and mixed 55 gallons of fresh salt water no it wasn't Io this time. Its not really a big deal.. I'm glad that I know what was the problem.. I'm a little sad about my fish dying some of them I've had since I first started about 4 months ago. I lucky that I'm on this site otherwise I would still be scared as hell to do any water changes. Yeah I know some people would file a claim without any problems. I posted my problem on this thread close to the beginning but I did not know it was the salt. I thought it was the amquel plus stuff.
 
victor90,

Have you test your water yet? I'm not doubting you, but to make any statement like this to any company you need to be sure that it is ture. There could be alot of things that is causing your fish to die. Testing your your is one way to find that cause.
 
Victor,
Your problem is hardly conclusive that the death is due to the salt. Freshly mix saltwater is deadly for fish. You should Know this. Your post seem to indicated taht you use tap water, mix it with IO salt and use it right away. You should set Quaraintine tank up for a while before using it.
Minh
 
Victor

Victor

A lot of people may hop on the "My Fish Died" Bandwagon, but I remember you posting this problem earlier and someone hinted it was because you used tap water and AmQuel.

If I remember correctly, your water was cloudy, and your fish died right after using the salt for the first time in a quarantine tank, right???

What did the alkalinity measure at and what kind of a test kit did you use to determine that?

:fish2: :fish2: :fish2:
 
What should I test for now I got rid of everything. Everything tested fine nh3 no2 no3 and even ph was around 8. Theres not really a way I can prove it to them. I don't care if their going to reimburse me or not it would be nice though all I want is for them to tell me if they had a bad batch or not. This way I will know for sure what killed my fish.. When i first started I didn't qt my fish i lost fish that cost way more than the ones I lost. So the cost of the fish is not a really big deal. You know in this hobby things do die. I want the company to admit they screwed up. Never in all my years of fish has a whole tank wiped out in that short of time. Having a minor in chem and ba in bio I knew something was wrong.. The other reefers were lucky that they knew of Randy and he was glad to help them out. You know how much it would cost to get that salt sample analyzed by a lab.

I'm glad thats its over and I can start buying fish again.
 
NewMariner--

Don't make a jab, if you don't want one back.

....us lowly Money Delivery Men......Your job title is very vague and it may not even be what you do. Heck, you could be into money delivery for the mob for all I know.

Anyway, I am not the president of anything. I like my free time too much to become the president. I am not even the boss in my own house--hahahaha.
 
So did we find out what other salts are made at the same Plant that IO and Kent salts were?

Where is this plant and what is the name of the plant. I for one am interested in the way the salt is created and what all goes into making the salt.

Would this plant have a website or some kind on customer service that I could contact for more information.

Not to be mean or anything but some people are getting flamed on this board and I know other reefers that will never post because they always say they get flamed. RC is known around the other reef web sites as a bunch of flamers. Not to say everyone is but just look at some of the posts here and you too will see the flaming going on. Just be polite and answer the questions that are asked as there is no need to Jab, poke, or stab each other. Or is there!:mixed:
 
Last edited:
What's this?

What's this?

The president of Aquarium Systems is jabbing with a money deliverer for the mob?

I'm kidding, I'm positive you are both non-presidential and legal through and through.

Victor, you said you threw out everything, even the tank water, but want to know how much it would cost to have it analyzed by the mob... er... I'm mean a lab. If you still have some of that salt, send it to Randy.

I'm sure he doesn't mind all these lumpy heavy packages coming in from all over the continent.

:mixed:
 
well according to other reefers on this site you do not have to set up qt. Just the filters which is a bak pak 2 with the bio thing (TAKE OFF MAIN TANK) and a whisper 40 for mechanical (taken off old twenty gallonqt). I used 20 gallons from my main tank so I thought it was fine. I alwaysed used tap water and mix the salt takes about twenty to 30 minutes and and put it in the tank after checking temp and salinity with a refractometer for qt.. If I am doing it please advise me. I checked nh3, no2,no3 with aquarium pharmaceticals . I even talked to the lfs about my problem they told me tap water should be fine for qt as long as i used chlorine remover. They were as stunned and could not figure out what went wrong. Megalodon yes I did post my problems and you are correct about what happened. So how long should I wait before using the salt water. Doesn't it say that it can be used instantly after mixing on the bag? I'm sorry if I offended kstockman but I kind of think its more than chance that other people are having the same problem
 
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