Bangaii breeding

:headwallblue: Just when I thought it was safe to post and update I go and kill 2 or more.

I have been changing out water by removing water with a drip system and replacing with a drip system to prevent sucking one up or adding water too fast. Well I started the drip and it was supposed to be a drain that left 1/4 of the water but the tube slipped and almost all the water was sucked out and what was left was 6 thrashing fish which stirred the detris and made the water very toxic.

I've added fresh water and some are swimming we will see how many make it through the night. :headwallblue: :headwallblue:
 
Back to breathing easy. seems like they were just stunned but all are up and swimming. All 6. Now I need to wean them off the baby brine.
 
I have been following along and I have a question. I am wanting to attempt breeding them. I read a few posts that said bbs cause them to die of some type of fright shock I can't remember the exact name. Have you found this to be true? Or have you had issues with this? It is my biggest concern so I'm trying to get multiple views on it. Thanks!
 
I too have heard of this sudden fright death. So far my banggai have just be really resilient. So I'm not sure if this relates mostly to clown larva. I did, in the beginning, throw a few copepods in there but not many. My bbs are in nanno so they never become as nutritionless as those that aren't but nanno isn't the best enhancement feed either. Even in the banggai larva tank I have nanno so all day they are still eating and staying nutritionous. I haven't seen this sudden fright yet but that doesn't mean I won't or that it doesn't happen in clowns.

I know that I have been absolutely and terrible mom and they have managed to survive despite my inadequacies. I'm hoping at a few days short of 3 weeks I hope to be past the worst of it. I need to clean their bowl today and try to start them on some kind of other food. I think adult brine is probably still to big though they are eating live teenage brine (about half size and a lot larger than bbs). They are used to things in the water column. I have some different pellets and some different frozen foods I will be trying as I get the chance. Also I should be getting some reinforcements in the pods in the mail tomorrow.

Kiz McLeod
 
From researching when I had a pair of banggais, the issue with sudden fright syndrome appears to be from a lack of HUFAs (highly unsaturated fatty acids) during early development. This lack of proper early nutrition leads to deficient neurological development that causes these deaths. BBS are only good for the first 4-6 hours after hatching, when they still have egg sacks attached, after that they are not very nutritious and hence can lead to the sudden fright syndrome deaths. Enriching the brine shrimp with something like Selcon just prior to feeding will gut load them with the needed HUFA content. I think I had better luck too when I placed a "zip tie urchin" or something similar in the holding tank that gave the banggai babies a place to hide in and feel more secure.
 
So I wander at what age are they past the sudden fright possibility. I really think if that was going to happen it would have happened when I drained their tank and plopped them in new water without proper acclimation since I had just drained all their water.

I have read about this and I used 99% baby brine so maybe I just got lucky. My brine wer e not always less than 6 hours old but they were kept in live greenwater both the brine and the fish so that even when the brine were swimming around the larva tank they were getting algae.
 
Update. A few days ago I upgraded them from the round 1 gallon found in pet stores to a 1.5 gallon square plastic with handles found at Sam's for professional food storage. I LOVE IT. I will be my new quarantine tank from now on. Easy to see in side nice wide open top though there is a lid if you want it. I can even tell fairly accurately how much water is in the tank because there are graduated marks on the side. This will be handy if I need to dose for parasites/ich or such. Also cheaper then the 2.5 gallon at Petsmart that I've had my eye on forever but refuse to pay $15 for a 2.5 gallon.

I am trying to wean them to something other than live and I'm not very good at it. They lover their baby brine and I keep giving it to them. It is so much easier than having to clean the tank plus they keep turning their nose up at frozen rotifers, brine, eggs, frozen copepods, pellets of all kinds. But I really need to get them switched over so I'll keep half-heartedly trying.
 
kizanne said:
So I wander at what age are they past the sudden fright possibility. I really think if that was going to happen it would have happened when I drained their tank and plopped them in new water without proper acclimation since I had just drained all their water.

I have read about this and I used 99% baby brine so maybe I just got lucky. My brine wer e not always less than 6 hours old but they were kept in live greenwater both the brine and the fish so that even when the brine were swimming around the larva tank they were getting algae.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's age, really, but more nutrition. If the fish' diet lacks in the proper HUFA's, then the fish are probably developmentally stunted somewhere in the nervous system...because your brine are put in algae, then they're more nutritionally complete is what I'm thinking.

Kiz, I can't remember, but have you tried using kreisels yet? Petsmart has tiny plastic flat sided bowls that I think you'd go wild on once you got the kreisels figured out.
 
I have not tried Kreisler yet only because so far hatching isn't the problem and the few accounts of succesful dragonet breeding I've read doesn't use them for large. If and when I get around to sea horses or some of the other more temperamental fish then I'll have to give them a go. I'm very low tech because I'm lazy.
 
Well still have 6 little babies. They are giving me fits with trying to wean them off of the live baby brine. I think one might have eaten a frozen brine today. It is hard to tell. They swim up and then nothing. or with the eggs I tried they literally swim away from them.
 
These babies are little s**** they won't eat anything but live brine. I am having a hard time weaning to non-live. Now I'm going on vacation and I'm going to put them in a 10 gal with phyto and live brine so that won't help wean them but hopefully it will keep them alive.
 
I once had a similar stubborn clutch, and I had to go out of town for a 4 day conference. I fed them well before leaving, then they were on their own till I returned. When i returned I offered them finely diced frozen mysis and they devoured it! Nothing like an empty stomach to make anything look good! Good luck with them.
 
Yeah I starved them yesterday and tried some frozen brine. Nothing. I put them in their luxury vacation tank today with live brine (adult and baby) and amphipods a Copepods. Inevitable is some Rotifera. They started pigging out. If they don't make it at least I know they'll die happy. I also put Vera in there ( one of the spotted female mandarins )
 
Well putting them in the 10 gal they experienced a shock I didn't do the transition correctly do to limited time but they were all up and swimming before I left for vacation. Got back yesterday and all the brine was gone and 5 of the 6 were alive as well as Vera (a spotted mandarin). I had also put some amphipods in there for Vera they were all gone as well. The ammonia was 0.25 so not bad. I took this opportunity to try some non-living foods again. Tried frozen brine not really any interest. Tried Dr. G's fish eggs some interest but nobody ate one. They would swim right up to it and literally kiss the egg. Mouth closed touch the egg. Tried a mix of ocean pearls 200-300 microns and cyclopeze (dried). I think a few ate some of this. The excitement definately goes up and sometimes their mouth open but due to the small size of the food it is hard to tell. I am going to keep trying varieties of frozen / dried foods. I will not be giving them anymore live brine so hopefully they start eating before they starve.
 
I suspect they will soon take the non live food if they are showing that much interest. They also seem to learn from watching each other. Once one starts taking the food well, the others should follow suit. Good luck!
 
Well they are now being fed only live brine and it appears they have all taken to it.

Yeah. Now they just need to get bigger and I'll have my first successful breed!!!

I might be a whopping $30 for all 5 babies left which means I'll only need a gazillion more to break even on this hobby LOL. Seriously I just hope I can find homes for the babies so that I don't get stuck with 5 more banggai's. I think my LFS will take them.
 
Lol! I have a better chance of winning the lottery than ever breaking even with my breeding efforts! I could only get $5 apiece at my lfs. I think ORA (and the overseas commercial breeders) win this round. That said, congratulations on the success!
 
Down to 4. I don't know what got the little guy. He didn't look too skinny and had some tattered fins. I have seen a little aggression between the banggai but it seems too early for anything serious. Maybe Vera did it.
 
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