Banggai Cardinal Fish

D

Dasgruenegesich

New member
Hi:)

I have a Banggai Cardinal Fish and I'd like to breed it.
How do I tell males apart from females?
I'd like to buy another & see what happens:)

The one I have now is housed in a 90g reef tank with only smaller & peaceful fish.

Thank you. Sandra
 
they are impossoble to tell apart but if they fight they are M M if they comingle they are M F and if they are passive they are F F
 
I have a pair that are carrying their third set of fry in 3 months.

From what I have read, and observed... The males have an angular jaw and flatter stomach. The females have a little bit more rounded jaw and stomach. These chacteristic differences are slight, and are only discernible when you can compare the two. The male also has a black banner streaming from it anterior dorsal fin. This is less reliable IMO because while brooding the first batch... my female grew an extended banner.

I bought 3 of them back near the end of February, hoping that two would pair off and after about three weeks... two did pair off and the male chased the other fish away and made him stay in the corner of the tank, until I removed him.

My pair is rare... in that the female carries the fry in her mouth. People have called me crazy but, I not only watched the transfer on the second batch... I also found a video on Youtube of a female catching the eggs in her mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbxQg1VeXc8

Another 2 or 3 weeks went by and then I noticed that the female had stopped eating. After a closer inspection... her jaw was swolen. I did some research and found out that the gestation period was supposed to be around 21 days.

I moved her to a 10 gallon tank on the 20th day so she could release the fry where they would be safe. After lights out on the 27th day... she began releasing and by morning... there were 18 babies.

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I fed her and then moved her back to the display where she was met by her mate... who was closely checking her out.

I hatched some baby brine which the babies loved. I fed them 3 to 4 times a day. They were only interested in live food for about the first 2 to 3 weeks. They are now about 48 days old and I feed them mostly cyclopeeze and mysis and still some baby brine. They even eat some Formula II algae.

17 days after the first hatching... the mom was holding again... only this time, her mouth was fuller. After 23 days... I bought a net divider for the breeder tank and moved her in with the other babies that were about 40 days old. They were very interested in what was on the other side of the divider. That night... she began to release. By around midnight... there were 12. I turned the light out and within 10 minutes, or so... 2 of the older fish squeezed by the divider and killed a baby. I jury rigged the divider with another net... and went to bed. The next morning there were 19 babies. I got a 5 gallon tank with a filt, heater and a lamp and moved the new babies to it. By that night, there were a total of thirty live babies and 1 dead one... and, by the following morning... there were 12 more live ones for a total of 42. And, she was hungry.

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This time... I kept her in the breeder tank and fed her all she could eat, 4 times a day for 4 days before returning her to the display where she would have to compete for food. I felt that the last time... she didn't get a chance to fatten up before getting knocked up. So after the 4 days of powerfeeding... I moved her back... and on the third day, she was carrying again.

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So, if everything goes as planned... The first batch will be ready to sell in a couple of weeks, the second batch will be around three weeks old and I will move them to the 10 gallon and then put the mom in the 5 gallon around the 2nd of August
 
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for the record it is the male that carries the babies, and if mpederson and dmarini can not cold sex them nether can you or I.
 
Did you not click on the link? Did you not see the female catch the eggs in her mouth. There are at least two reports of the female brooding the fry and one of them was taped. I witnessed it in my tank on more than one occasion and offered the video proof of the other report... and for you to sit there and take the stance that there are no other possibilities... and not leave yourself a backdoor is idiotic and sophomoric. Oh wait... you're not a sophomore until next year.
 
I'll lay odds your "female" is male. No way a female could keep producing viable eggs in quantity so quickly after that stretch of not eating while brooding ;)
 
In the second spawning, I watched the male follow the female around and catch the eggs and then transfer them to the female's mouth. I also posted a link showing another female catching the eggs in her own mouth... because the male would not do his job. Like all of you... Everything I read said that the male broods the fry. So, this is what I believed. Even after the first spawning... the fish that I originally thought was the female, was brooding the fry... I just thought I must have just gotten the sexes wrong but, then I witnessed the second spawning. At some point... when a person is offered enough proof that a theory has been disproven... he must start to think for himself.
 
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I'll weigh in on this if you don't mind.
I do find this fascinating
There have been a few reports over the past 10yrs of female banggais carrying the residual eggs. Back in 97 K clarke first reported it and showed photo proof, however, this is purely a captive environment thing. Second in general terms the females aren't carrying fertile eggs, or at least folks are reporting they do.

Kannin-if you posted that video on you tube showing the male and female dancing the female releasing the eggs then scooping them up. Your doing a disservice to the banggai world, its an interesting phenomenom. I do appreciate you showing the video, and its important that you do, but its not the norm, and it would be especially useful, if clearly identify that your female is scooping up the eggs.
I've seen links from a few websites pointing to that video of the egg transfer, and stating its female to male-it isn't

Anyway In the wild, banggi females usually produce far more eggs than 1 male mouth can brood and the pair will often allow a 3rd mate (2nd male) to join in the breeding to faciltate mouthbrooding any residual eggs. In the home aquarium the remaining eggs usually drop to the bottom of the tank, however a few folks have reported the other banggai (the female) will pick up those eggs and mouthbrood for a day to a week, but i've not heard of anyone having fertile eggs, as the males haven't fertilized the residual eggs. So this mouth-to-mouth transfer is fascinating, if not bizarre
Just so I'm clear on this, your saying your female carries to term and releases fry, and that a few days later has the next batch of eggs ready

Really Gary can sex these fish...amazing. the closest theory and proof that I've seen is they use of "venting"-ie counting genital papillae, however, you need to invert each fish, use a ocular loop and count- extremely subtle and difficult
 
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I'm not sure I get your statement about that video... I posted it to show proof that the female can catch the eggs in her own mouth. By the way... the video on Youtube is not of my cardinals. I only included the link in this thread so that people would view it, prior to responding to me... telling me that I don't know what I am talking about. I am not saying it is the norm... or even somewhat common. I am saying that there are exceptions to most, if not every rule. I have witnessed my female brood the eggs. During the second spawning... by the time I got my camera, it was done but, the male continued to follow her waiting by her vent and in the photos... you can clearly see her mouth full while he is following her from behind.

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The time between the first release and the second spawning was 17 days. The time between the second release and third spawning was approximately 7 days. I am worried that this third batch will possibly be difficient in some way due to the very short recovery. Her mouth is not as full this time. And, she is notably thinner.

How are the eggs fertilized? I believed that they were fertilized prior to the eggs being brooded... while still in the female. Am I wrong? Dang was visiting on Wednesday when I noticed that she was carrying again and my wife told me that she saw them doing a dance the day before... where it appeared that they were touching their butts together. (her words, not mine)

As far as sexing... There was a noticable difference between the 3 fish, when I first got them. The two that revealed themselves to be males by fighting once these two paired off... had angular jaws and flat stomachs and the other one was more round.
 
Thank you for all the information:)
I might go out and buy 2-3 more to see if 2 of them bond.
I will be posting more as soon as I get them.

LLL Sandra
 
Unfortunately without seeing the spawning/breeding behavior that would be a dead give away, the only honest answer anyone can give you is "I don't know".
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12927187#post12927187 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kannin
From what I have read, and observed... The males have an angular jaw and flatter stomach. The females have a little bit more rounded jaw and stomach. These chacteristic differences are slight, and are only discernible when you can compare the two. The male also has a black banner streaming from it anterior dorsal fin. This is less reliable IMO because while brooding the first batch... my female grew an extended banner.
Click to expand...

None of that information can identify the sex of your Bangaii. They will look identical for the most part.

The jaw may show differences, but this is usually after the male has held a brood.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12938987#post12938987 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by oceanparadise1
not true, gary m in URS can tell them apart! give him a pm, he will tell you what it is.
Click to expand...

I read how he says to do it. He's repeating what was written over 10 years ago and long since proven to be inaccurate ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12939270#post12939270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
I read how he says to do it. He's repeating what was written over 10 years ago and long since proven to be inaccurate ;)
Click to expand...

Is this method inaccurate half of the time or does it give you an edge over an uneducated guess?
 
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