bare-bottom, or live sand????

[Cody Ray]

I wonder if cc would work the best in a high flow situation. You will find cc on areas of the reef with extremely high flow because that is the only substrate that will stay in place.

 

[graveyardworm]

I think regardless of the situation a CC sand bed would still trap lots of detritus, and would not have denitrifying ability of a sugarfine DSB. So if the goal is a low nutrient environment you would probably have problems.

 

[BreadmanMike]

I love the clean look of a BB tank. I run all my tanks BB. I have no issues running my aggressive tank, zoo/softy tank, or my LPS tank BB. If detritus settles I can get it out before it breaks down, it's up to me how clean I want the system to be. It's a little more work, but well worth it IMO.

Both ways can work or fail... It's up to you what the end result will be. If you aren't willing to put the effort into husbandry, you will fail no matter what.

This board is full of knowledge and there's some really great people willing to help out.

Here's 3 of my favorite tank threads. One user is no longer active, but the thread is full of info, just missing the photo's. This shows three different approaches to this hobby. Enjoy!

Paul B

Melev

Bomber

Pics of Bomber's tank

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7772721#post7772721 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Sand beds dont "release phosphate"

What happens, is you're producing more thna it can handle, and it just keeps building up, until it stops absorbing any, and then it builds up and you have too much.

It happening is a product of poor husbandry.


THey both work fine. Tons of flow and a big skimmer, and you'll do great,

Rich- did you read this thread?


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=263482&highlight=burp

 

[RichConley]

Yes Gary, I have.


Like I Said, if you maintain your sandbed properly, its fine. If you let it become a festering cesspool, you'll have issues.


They both work fine

 

[Chihuahua6]

Where did StephenD go?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7772721#post7772721 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Sand beds dont "release phosphate"

What happens, is you're producing more thna it can handle, and it just keeps building up, until it stops absorbing any, and then it builds up and you have too much.

It happening is a product of poor husbandry.


THey both work fine. Tons of flow and a big skimmer, and you'll do great,

Sandbeds can and do release phosphates. It's not an opinion- it's a fact. The facts are documented. It happens in the ocean and it happens in aquariums.
It's not a product of poor husbandry. You don't necessarily need to be producing more wastes than a DSB can handle at any given time- it's the accumulation of detritus over a long period of time that is the problem with the DSB methodology.
More flow and a bigger skimmer will not solve the problems that an old DSB causes (IME and in the experience of many others).
Only removal and replacement will solve the problems that an old DSB causes.

 

[Reefologist]

BB is so 10 years ago. IMO DSB all the way.

 

[R33f3r]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7848397#post7848397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefologist
BB is so 10 years ago. IMO DSB all the way.

Funny.

 

[kenbennedy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7800441#post7800441 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by David_agg05
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=215675&highlight=progress

This is a good thread to read about a Deep Sand Bed and how to properly do it. Also you might think about reading Dr. Rons discussion on DSB's. As long as you do it right and plan accordingly, and listen to the real experts, you will be fine with a DSB. I personally know a guy who has won tank of the month on here with an SPS dominated tank. He ran a DSB and still does with great success. He has the most beautiful SPS tank i have seen. He also has about 130 times turnover in a 180g tank and no sand storms. He also doesn't use in tank power heads that can fall and create sand storms. He uses a closed loop with Penducters. Anyway, lets hear the barrage of comments. It is always interesting. Oh, and he uses an oversized skimmer w/ carbon and phosban reactors. Also recharges his sand with free cups from fellow reefers. He also runs about a 100 gallon refugium with lots of cheato and a geo calcium reactor. Again read Dr. Shimmeks comments on DSB.

Can someone point us towards Dr. Ron's discussions on DSB's? Im up for some good reading. Thanks.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7819397#post7819397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak

More flow and a bigger skimmer will not solve the problems that an old DSB causes (IME and in the experience of many others).
Only removal and replacement will solve the problems that an old DSB causes.

More flow and a bigger skimmer means less waste in the sandbed. I know plenty of reefers going on 5+ years with no problems.



For the record, I run 2 tanks BB, and 1 DSB. Your statement is why this always turns into a fight. The DSB people saying either way can work, and the BB people saying that a DSB can't work. It can, and does for many people.

 

[graveyardworm]

Can someone point us towards Dr. Ron's discussions on DSB's? Im up for some good reading. Thanks

All of Rons threads can be found here in the advanced forum. You can either use the search feature at the lower right corner of the main page, or use the search function for a more advanced search, use rshimek for user name, and your gonna need to go back atleast a year. Hard to believe its already been almost a year.

Also here's an article on sand beds

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7849596#post7849596 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley

For the record, I run 2 tanks BB, and 1 DSB. Your statement is why this always turns into a fight. The DSB people saying either way can work, and the BB people saying that a DSB can't work. It can, and does for many people.

I posted no inaccurate information in this thread. I never said that a DSB can't work. I'm after the truth about maintaining reef aquaria here. I'm very interested in what happens to DSB's as they age. Stay on topic- there is no fight here.

 

[kenbennedy]

Is there a sticky somewhere or a good list of sandbed FAQ's, Im still looking for some more DSB reading before I try to chime in.

 

[Paul B]

Obviousely, any type of sand bed or no sandbed will work. I think we put too much emphasis on substraits and not enough on other aspects of reefing. You can not really have a discussion on just the merits of sand because the substrait works in conjunction with the other factors in your reef. I myself use a reverse UG filter but it would be useless if I diden't do certain maintenance procedures. A bare bottom may not work well if it is lacking enough live rock. A DSB will have problems depending on the grain size and critter population. Sand by itsely does nothing but sit there, it is the way the bacteria interacts with it that determines weather a reef will be successful long term. Just about any system will work for a couple of years even with no water changes or maintenance so that does not prove much.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[JD52]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7819397#post7819397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
Sandbeds can and do release phosphates. It's not an opinion- it's a fact. The facts are documented. It happens in the ocean and it happens in aquariums.
It's not a product of poor husbandry. You don't necessarily need to be producing more wastes than a DSB can handle at any given time- it's the accumulation of detritus over a long period of time that is the problem with the DSB methodology.
More flow and a bigger skimmer will not solve the problems that an old DSB causes (IME and in the experience of many others).
Only removal and replacement will solve the problems that an old DSB causes.

6 Months ago I would have argued this post, until recently my 5" DSB has been performing flawlessly and I love the look along with the creatures that call it home >>(right at the 5 year mark almost to the month)<< I began noticing random patches of varying algae here and there, I mostly just blew it off and did some water changes but the problem persisted and began to get worse. Ive always taken great care to make sure the DSB was in perfect operating condition, nass snails and fighting conches, the whole nine yards with very few fish. I did all the normal testing and for the most part everything was in check, then I began losing corals, sps corals and some expensive ones to boot! Now my once beatiful sps tank looks like a freeking piece of sh!t. So, since nothings really changed husbandry wise and the fact that the tank went down so quickly, Im placing the blame directly on a spent DSB. I believe that a DSB has a usefull lifespan of about 4-5 years depending on load and filtration ymmv. Im by no means dissn' DSB's, I just dont want to go through the hassle of replacing it every 5 years, so bare bottom here I come!

 

[Paul B]

I always thought DSBs had a life span but I know someone here has one for ten years.
Paul

 

[JD52]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7927760#post7927760 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
I always thought DSBs had a life span but I know someone here has one for ten years.
Paul

Paul, can you get this person to share his secret to DSB success with the rest of us? I think many of us would be interested.

 

[Paul B]

He is JJohn, he is on here. I guess you could ask him because I don't know much about them.
Paul

 

[55semireef]

As long as you don't have gobies...a dsb is great.