Be kind, I am in a pickle.

Dogshowgrl

Dogshowgrl

New member
PLEASE UNDERSTAND I DID NOT DO THIS.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM TRYING TO DO RIGHT BY THIS ANIMAL.

I DID NOT BUY THIS SEAHORSE AND DO NOT BUY FROM THIS STORE.

I walked into a LFS that I NEVER go into for some live ghost shrimp. (not for feeding my ponies but for my other tank my good guy LFS was out and I was driving by, big mistake!) After some causal talking the owner realized I did seahorses and BEGGED me to see if there was something I could do. I ended up with 100 free shrimp and free dying seahorse. great weekend huh?

It is a WC full grown male erectus. I was told when they first got him he was eating live.... for the first two days. That was a month ago and they claim he hasn't eaten since. I took a step in the back and bit my tongue not to cuss them out or cry. But moving on for the uninformed people that anger me.

He has been in my care for 4 hours, I have done a pouch evac. and got him rolled over almost upright. But the problem is much bigger. He has external air bubbles EVERYWHERE. Snout, throat, around the pouch, and all down his tail. His tail is almost always breaking the surface of the water, and unless he is trying to hold a position his snout breaks the surface. He is not hitching to anything (although he was at the store, but not well.)

When I first saw him I thought I would just ease his pain and euthanize with clove oil, but I tossed a couple shrimp in and he chases them and tries to snick them, he can hit them but cant actually get them in his mouth (they are the smallest ones I have.)

Now my plan of attack is as long as he tries I will try.

the water parameters of the water he came in
S.G. 1.030+++
pH 8.4
Ammonia 1
Nitrite .5
Nitrates 50
Temp 82 (tank he was in when I bagged him)


So with things that extreme I can't just throw him in a new tank so I am dripping RODI slowly into a bucket and airline moving water over night until he gets to a point I can get the SG on the scale.
I keep reading not to lance these bubbles but the vet tech in me... thats hard. If it was just on his body or maybe a couple on his tail but this is more than that.

Plan from here
100% WC daily as needed to maintain water quality in un-cycled quarantine.
Slowly bring down SG to 1.020-1.022
sedate with clove oil lance bubbles and if time allows (10 minutes) tube feed I feel like he needs the calories from trying to stay upright, and If I have him sedated I need to take the opportunity
Kanamycin added to tank water

He is being kept in a separate room and I have a wash station before you get to any of my cultures or other tanks. I have worked many zoonotic quarantines so I tend to go over board.


Please advise.

Do I address any other issues or focus on getting him to eat? Deworm yet or wait? Is this plan reasonable? Try any FW dips for anything? How long?

Yes, I was hit with a stupid stick, but please be kind. He is still so active, not really depressed so I just cant bring myself to give up on him yet.

Many of you have read my post before and realize I am capable and passionate. I need you to be kind, I was not looking for this adventure just yet, but I feel it was necessary and I followed the rules. I didn't pay for him and I explained how they system was not setup for seahorses and to please refer seahorse people to research and go to the seahorse specialist store we have locally that is aqua-culturing them.

HELP!!!!
Many Thanks!!!
He fights, I fight!!
 
41f87e593d07bbd9451e4c36f58e8437.jpg


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I don't know anything about seahorses but I was just reading about these bubbles because I was curious. Very sad that the LFS let this poor creature get in this state because it seems that this is something preventable?

Anyways just curious on your thoughts as to why you are lancing the bubbles versus doing treatments of acetazolamide because from my brief reading it seems that this is the preferred treatment. Is the use of acetazolamide outdated? Just curious not trying to question your method since I don't know anything.

Good luck with the rehabilitation/treatment. Will be cheering you on :)
 
I think I would concentrate on getting him acclimated to good water quality and eating first before you try any real treatment. I have found if a fish is eating you have a good shot at saving it and from what I have read about WC seahorses, thats a biggie. All those bubbles may be the result of imbalances in his system due to the poor living conditions he was subjected to. If he can make the adjustment back to good water quality then perhaps his will to live and his body wil begin to right itself. No doubt at that point he will need some help like perhaps diamox which the vet you work for can probably prescribe. Its a medication for people with glaucoma (I believe) but has been found by seahorse keepers to have benefits for gas bubble disease. My instincts would be not to lance any of the gas bubbles because then he will have openings to his skin for infection to set in. I doubt in his weakened condition that he could fight that too.
Best of luck to you.
 
farfromsea said:
I don't know anything about seahorses but I was just reading about these bubbles because I was curious. Very sad that the LFS let this poor creature get in this state because it seems that this is something preventable?

Anyways just curious on your thoughts as to why you are lancing the bubbles versus doing treatments of acetazolamide because from my brief reading it seems that this is the preferred treatment. Is the use of acetazolamide outdated? Just curious not trying to question your method since I don't know anything.

Good luck with the rehabilitation/treatment. Will be cheering you on :)
Click to expand...
I am not sure myself.

My thought is

He is not hitching.
That's fine, I understand. He is painful, I wouldn't want to hitch either.

And that is not enough of a reason to sedate and/or lance. However, he has a 1/4 of his tail that stays out of the water. I am not talking bobbing at the surface, I mean out of the water. His snout, all of the bubble on the tip (refer to photo) stay out of the water unless he is actively moving. This means even as simple as breathing, has been altered. They take water in through the snout and sides of gills when they breath, he only gets water in through his the sides.

He is not able to eat.
That's ok, in time we can get him able to.

But after I found out he hasn't really eaten in a month, I am concerned about his his caloric intake. He is working very hard to stay upright since he is too painful to hitch. If he is unable to take anything in, he will be susceptible to other ailments. I am not sure he could handle any more ailments, but I definitely do not want to find out.

But if I already have him sedated to lance things. That is my chance to tube feed as long as I stay under 10 minutes and his breathing stays steady. I have done procedures and biopsies before, but this still is a little unnerving.

Those are my concerns about the risks of not lancing. I feel like it's huge. Looking at him, gosh it's heartbreaking.

I understand the only risk I have read about is infection. IF THAT IS NOT TRUE PLEASE CORRECT ME! Well, infection I an doing a fresh bucket (100% water change) everyday and a FW dip and adding an antibiotic already. If his extremities that need it sent even wet well.... How does this help?

Pros vs cons.... I think I am making the best decision based on current situation, and research.
 
I have injectable metacam. I have read it can be used for pain management. I have dosages and things, but would this be any help? He can't use his body normally, the bubbles cause such lack of mobility. Should I worry about pain management once his body is closer to usable?

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vlangel said:
I think I would concentrate on getting him acclimated to good water quality and eating first before you try any real treatment. I have found if a fish is eating you have a good shot at saving it and from what I have read about WC seahorses, thats a biggie. All those bubbles may be the result of imbalances in his system due to the poor living conditions he was subjected to. If he can make the adjustment back to good water quality then perhaps his will to live and his body wil begin to right itself. No doubt at that point he will need some help like perhaps diamox which the vet you work for can probably prescribe. Its a medication for people with glaucoma (I believe) but has been found by seahorse keepers to have benefits for gas bubble disease. My instincts would be not to lance any of the gas bubbles because then he will have openings to his skin for infection to set in. I doubt in his weakened condition that he could fight that too.
Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...


I have Diamox, well I have pretty much ever drug I have ever read maybe be a help.... ever. lol


Thanks. He is not opening his mouth at all. He chases food bumps it then gives up. his eyes are active. I tube fed today. I know he wants to eat, but under his cheek spine(?) (the part that moves on the bottom if the jaw when they snick) has so many air pockets it doesn't move and he doesn't open his mouth.

I don't want to pop bubbles, but one popped just to tube feed to get the mouth open. (yes I panicked) if he can't move how am I ever going to get him able to eat? When I tube fed, he seemed relieved.

If I am not lancing the pockets how long does it take to get some relief? it took more than a month to get like this. In most cases it take longer to heal than it does to get to that condition. If that is true, I don't have a month to wait to try to get him to eat.

Currently
Tube fed mysis and selcon (less food came out of his gills than expected fingers crossed)
Kanamycin in water
Diamox in water (called manufacture not contraindicated to be used with antibiotics)
 
I would keep tube feeding him and I should have thought to suggest that. It sounds like you are doing reasonable intervention and now it is up to him. And of course you have to be prepared that in spite of your heroic measures that this seahorse may not make it. I have not treated any seahorses with his condition so my opinion is just that. Perhaps someone who has dealt with seahorses with severe GBD will jump in and share what worked for them.
 
I appreciate everything you are saying. sorry if I came off as "passionate." I will keep up the tube feeding.

You think Selcon and mysis is good enough? Is there something better?

Side note: I grew up working with animals. I grew up with a vet that said "dead or better" it's not to say you don't try everything. But try everything and they make the decision to keep fighting. When you put your heart and everything you have into it, you are able to sleep at night because at the end of the day they are "dead or better" and you did everything you could.

Thank you for the input, we will see. Fingers crossed and "dead or better" but hey let's give it a shot!


But to be able to sleep at night, I need to know I exhausted every avenue I had. These forums are one of them. I hope someone who has been successful (or not) will chime in.

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I would just keep doing what you are doing with antibiotics, diamox and tube feeding.

I had a very similar experience in 2003 when a LFS gave me a H. barbouri seahorse that had not eaten in weeks. I was able to save him but it was not easy and he had relapses several times.

Good luck and I am glad you had a kind heart to try and help this horse.

Bruce
 
teemee said:
Would Melafix help if you're lancing him?
Good luck!
Click to expand...
In the world of meds Melafix is low on my list. I use it for other fish families, and my pipefish but it left a little nervous. I try to use things I am more familiar with. Things that I can call drug companies and drug reps about to investigate about interactions between drug families. But I do have Melafix on hand I didn't have enough information on its true active ingredients and how they would react with Diamox. I really hate fish world meds, I want to understand it not just think it is going to work.
 
Melafix consists of 1% Melaleuca Oil, 99% Distilled Water.
Also known as tea tree oil if that helps.
 
Been decades since I kept seahorses, but Diamox was the thing for external GBS even back then. Had to find a sympathetic LPN, since Diamox wasn't available as a veterinary medicine at that point. Worked great.

Best of luck to you.

After several rounds of GBS, and many lost broods due to my inability to maintain a sufficient food source for them, I gave up on seahorses. Just decided they're better off in the ocean.

https://seahorse.com/forum/how-do-you-treat-bubble-disease-sea-horse
 
Although I have kept many seahorses mine never developed those gas bubbles. But in Pete Giwojna's book "A Step by Step Book about Seahorses he states that what your fish has is relatively common and can be cured by piercing the bubbles with a sharp sterile needle (underwater) taking care not to go any further than the membrane of the bubble then messaging the gas out. Then dry the area and dab on hydrogen peroxide.
I personally have never tried this but that's all I got.
 
Thanks for the input all. Slow and steady. I am still tube feeding. He still floats pretty bad but everyday I have him is a day closer to getting him better.

Observation, I have seen a external air bubble when I opened his pouch. It's on the inside of the pouch in the membrane. Not that I needed one more thing, but it does explain why I seem to never get all the pouch air out.

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