Best meds for ick
- Thread starter austin552
- Start date
i am not sure that your problem is ICH, do a little more reading on it (loosing scales is either extreme ich or a diferent disease), but if it is get "KICK-ICH" and start it asap, it works wonders and is reef safe, i used it a month or so ago and it fixed everything, but time is of the essance...every day counts
Randall_James
Premium Member
Did you observe the fish "Flashing" the bottom to knock the scales off? Ich will present as "little white spots" and the fish would be flashing the bottom due to the irritaition of the parasite.
Hyposalinity and copper are the "ONLY" known treatements that are verified to work.
Both must be done in very specific ways to work. The other thing is your tank will need to stay "Fish Free" for 6-8 weeks.
NO other treatments have been shown to do a thing so avoid all the "Reef Safe" or magic cures you will find advertised, it is just 30 to 50 bucks you could have spent on salt.
If you just moved your fish to qt please monitor the tank closely as in the first week if the tank was not cycled, it is going to and you are going to need some very radical water changes to keep the ammonia levels at a safe level. (I think more losses in qt are due to this than disease).
Hyposalinity and copper are the "ONLY" known treatements that are verified to work.
Both must be done in very specific ways to work. The other thing is your tank will need to stay "Fish Free" for 6-8 weeks.
NO other treatments have been shown to do a thing so avoid all the "Reef Safe" or magic cures you will find advertised, it is just 30 to 50 bucks you could have spent on salt.
If you just moved your fish to qt please monitor the tank closely as in the first week if the tank was not cycled, it is going to and you are going to need some very radical water changes to keep the ammonia levels at a safe level. (I think more losses in qt are due to this than disease).
austin552
New member
Fingers Crossed
Fingers Crossed
http://www.imagecabin.com/?view=1146843689adeb3e864edf255388b55c36d2cbf9ce
http://www.imagecabin.com/?view=1146843747972abbd6e5f0c7fe41ba7f04c8ce88a8
I have had the QT up and running for a while and test look good. I just got the copper treatment. I also mixed some food with a little water and garlic and froze for future feeding. I will keep an eye on copper and other levels.
Fingers Crossed
http://www.imagecabin.com/?view=1146843689adeb3e864edf255388b55c36d2cbf9ce
http://www.imagecabin.com/?view=1146843747972abbd6e5f0c7fe41ba7f04c8ce88a8
I have had the QT up and running for a while and test look good. I just got the copper treatment. I also mixed some food with a little water and garlic and froze for future feeding. I will keep an eye on copper and other levels.
bguile
Premium Member
That doesn't sound like ich to me. My clownfish used to always have pieces missing...a chunk of the dorsal fin, part of the caudal, and even the main fin. One time he literally looked like Nemo with a bum fin! :lol: Anyways, I believe it was from the torch coral he was hosting in. Not sure if he was being "nibbled" on or what, but once I moved him to another tank he was fine.
Randall_James
Premium Member
I would be looking at something other than Ich, perhaps a bacterial infection. Probably going to need some good photos and some good advice from a pro..
Moderator needs to move this post to the "Fish Disease" forum
Moderator needs to move this post to the "Fish Disease" forum
It's OK here Randy; so many Newbies get ich and we try to treat them before their hair falls out. 
It doesn't sound like ich to me either. Missing scales are more often caused by fights or abrasions from the rock than disease but they can turn into an infection. If the wound gets inflamed it is time to place the fish in a hospital tank and treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Bacteria rather than protozoa are usually the complications of wounds and abrasions and antibiotics are the main method of treatment. In some case the wound will heal fine on its own but if it appears to be worsening then the antibiotic treatment is in order.
There is no prove that garlic cures anything and is better used to make spaghetti but it causes no harm and you can use it if you wish. Just don't rely on it as a cure for a sick fish.
It doesn't sound like ich to me either. Missing scales are more often caused by fights or abrasions from the rock than disease but they can turn into an infection. If the wound gets inflamed it is time to place the fish in a hospital tank and treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Bacteria rather than protozoa are usually the complications of wounds and abrasions and antibiotics are the main method of treatment. In some case the wound will heal fine on its own but if it appears to be worsening then the antibiotic treatment is in order.
There is no prove that garlic cures anything and is better used to make spaghetti but it causes no harm and you can use it if you wish. Just don't rely on it as a cure for a sick fish.
Randall_James
Premium Member
yea nothing worse than a bald fish huh?
I was thinking the secondary infection is going to be the problem. A round of Myracyn 2 might be in order (in hospital tank)
I was thinking the secondary infection is going to be the problem. A round of Myracyn 2 might be in order (in hospital tank)
Johnsteph10
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7311070#post7311070 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
It's OK here Randy; so many Newbies get ich and we try to treat them before their hair falls out.
It doesn't sound like ich to me either. Missing scales are more often caused by fights or abrasions from the rock than disease but they can turn into an infection. If the wound gets inflamed it is time to place the fish in a hospital tank and treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic. Bacteria rather than protozoa are usually the complications of wounds and abrasions and antibiotics are the main method of treatment. In some case the wound will heal fine on its own but if it appears to be worsening then the antibiotic treatment is in order.
There is no prove that garlic cures anything and is better used to make spaghetti but it causes no harm and you can use it if you wish. Just don't rely on it as a cure for a sick fish.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Because of the nature of the lifecycle of ich it is very resistant to meds and needs to be treated long term.
Randall_James
Premium Member
Not exactly true, the ONLY med that has been shown effective is "copper" The treatment is actually pretty quick but very sensitive to content. Not enough copper and the ich survives and just a touch to much and the fish dies. Daily testing, if not twice daily copper testing is needed to keep the parameter correct. It is however 100% effective when used correctly. This is why I prefer hyposalinity. It is just about as effective and somewhat easier to monitor. The down side is it takes 3-4 weeks at 1.009 salinity instead of the 5 to 7 days of copper.
The hard part for most is eradication of the source (the tank). It really requires upwards of 8 weeks to make sure that the parasite is gone. (also why I like hyposalinity, the fish are out of the tank anyway so I use a natural control)
It is very hard to watch your fish in a smallish qt tank or hospital tank for that time (not to mention a hassle keeping water quality up to snuff after the copper treatment is done).
I did not really go into ich treatment as the images (even as bad as they were) looked more like abrasions that were going to be more likely to need treating for secondary infections. The problem is knowing gram-negative or gram-positive antibiotics. I am pretty sure gram-negative but I am not sure so expert opinion is really needed.
austin552
New member
Everyone, Thank you for your help
Everyone, Thank you for your help
Sorry, this is the best I can do with this camera.
http://www.imagecabin.com/?view=11468893130f2cdee5b17a95325cd03c73d13e6166
Its scales are turning whitish and has clear skin or mucus hanging under its body now. It climbes to the top and fall back to the bottom. If it is worse tomorow I may have to put it down. Whatever is happening is happening fast. He has gotten to this point in two days. All my other fish are healthy and show vibrant color.
Everyone, Thank you for your help
Sorry, this is the best I can do with this camera.
http://www.imagecabin.com/?view=11468893130f2cdee5b17a95325cd03c73d13e6166
Its scales are turning whitish and has clear skin or mucus hanging under its body now. It climbes to the top and fall back to the bottom. If it is worse tomorow I may have to put it down. Whatever is happening is happening fast. He has gotten to this point in two days. All my other fish are healthy and show vibrant color.
Randall_James
Premium Member
still stinks. I would yet venture to say you should probably do a round of Myacyn 2 on this guy to stem any secondary infection provided the primary cause of the problem does not take him out.
greenwood_60
New member
As for "Kick-Ich", it has killed every fish I have EVER "treated" with it. I think the fish would have had a better chance against the Ich.
Jason
Jason
greenwood_60
New member
For future reference, I have had very good results treating every new fish with melafix for the first 3 days, in quarantine.
Unfortunately, most of the damage done to the fish is done before we ever see them. All the ammonia in their system, in the form of harmless ammonium due to the PH of the water in the bag, becomes deadly ammonia as soon as the dealer start acclimating the fish. In the limited testing I have been able to do, a dose of ammo-lock or amquel in to the bag upon arrival has made a dramatic difference in survival rates. You do have to leave them in their bag a while longer, I don't know how long it takes to cycle through their system. I have only been able to attempt this with 2 shipments of fish.
I have also heard of using CO2 to drop the PH in a holding tank down to the level of the fish in the bags, and acclimating them to that. Then slowly(very slowly) raising the PH until it reaches normal levels. I don't have the equipment or the need to try this, but I figured its good information to pass along.
Jason
Unfortunately, most of the damage done to the fish is done before we ever see them. All the ammonia in their system, in the form of harmless ammonium due to the PH of the water in the bag, becomes deadly ammonia as soon as the dealer start acclimating the fish. In the limited testing I have been able to do, a dose of ammo-lock or amquel in to the bag upon arrival has made a dramatic difference in survival rates. You do have to leave them in their bag a while longer, I don't know how long it takes to cycle through their system. I have only been able to attempt this with 2 shipments of fish.
I have also heard of using CO2 to drop the PH in a holding tank down to the level of the fish in the bags, and acclimating them to that. Then slowly(very slowly) raising the PH until it reaches normal levels. I don't have the equipment or the need to try this, but I figured its good information to pass along.
Jason
Sorry to hear that Austin. Curing any fish depends very often on how soon the disease is detected and how soon treatment begins. An advanced infection is almost always fatal. I don't think the fish had ammonia toxicity as I have never seen it cause scale loss. It strictly is a matter in that it inhibits normal respiration of this toxin from the gills and the fish dies of internal poisoning mainly from alkalosis. There is a slight possibility that the fish could maybe have had a advanced case of Brooklynellosis (aka. Clownfish disease). This sometimes will cause lesions to form on the body. Once again, if it was that disease immediate treatment with a formalin dip might have saved it but it is often not detected soon enough.
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