Biology career advice

[JZinCO]

Can you go to school in one state for example Vermont and then go apply and get a job in Tennessee? Or are you out of the loop..

Basically should I go to college where I expect to get a job?

Example: graduate from Alabama and try to get a job at a Pennsylvania hatchery etc? OR go to school in pa to get a pa job

The basic prerequisites for the types of jobs we have been discussing, job titles such as fisheries biologist, stream ecologist, coastal restoration project coordinator are going to be that you got a degree certified by an American Fisheries Society (AFS) with expectations that you are working towards professional certification as a fisheries biologist and are active in your local AFS chapter. Certification comes with an exam and is acknowledged by any state.

Here is a really good basic and standard fish biologist job posting: https://www.warnell.uga.edu/fisheries-biologist-16

So, certifications and programs are recognized nationally. That said,(1) if you have a particular focus, follow that. So don't go to Utah State if your goal is saltwater fish, go to Oregon State if your goal is anadromous fish, etc (2) some states have a residency requirement for public agency jobs that are in high demand so they won't take applicants from out of state, (3) smaller employers like an indian tribe or a private hatchery recruit locally so it makes sense to go to school close to where you want to work, which brings up (4) which is that if you go to school in the West, they'll teach you the skills generally sought by the federal govt since the USFS, BLM, and Bonneville Power are big employers of fish; if you go to school in the East you'll more likely learn skills sought by private industrial landowners and consultancys.

 

[RadagastWizard]

The basic prerequisites for the types of jobs we have been discussing, job titles such as fisheries biologist, stream ecologist, coastal restoration project coordinator are going to be that you got a degree certified by an American Fisheries Society (AFS) with expectations that you are working towards professional certification as a fisheries biologist and are active in your local AFS chapter. Certification comes with an exam and is acknowledged by any state.

Here is a really good basic and standard fish biologist job posting: https://www.warnell.uga.edu/fisheries-biologist-16

So, certifications and programs are recognized nationally. That said,(1) if you have a particular focus, follow that. So don't go to Utah State if your goal is saltwater fish, go to Oregon State if your goal is anadromous fish, etc (2) some states have a residency requirement for public agency jobs that are in high demand so they won't take applicants from out of state, (3) smaller employers like an indian tribe or a private hatchery recruit locally so it makes sense to go to school close to where you want to work, which brings up (4) which is that if you go to school in the West, they'll teach you the skills generally sought by the federal govt since the USFS, BLM, and Bonneville Power are big employers of fish; if you go to school in the East you'll more likely learn skills sought by private industrial landowners and consultancys.

Stream ecology sounds cool!

Can you major in fisheries but have options such as come out and get a job as a aquatic ecologist? Or are you pretty limited by your specialization so that a fishery degree means you can only really break into a fishery job? ( when I think fishery I think stocking fish and propagation, I'm not sure how broad fishery degrees are as if it encompasses ecology as well?)

Because ideally I'd like to major in icthyology but if I can't find a job in that then branch out into things such as hatchery, or aquatic ecology, or possibly biotech

I feel like keeping my options open will help with employment..

My ideal job would be for example studying the effect of fracking or sewage on native existing trout in small streams however I don't really know if there are jobs like that

 

[farfromsea]

I would go to college where you are expecting to work. Especially in a niche field like this you are going to want to have all the leverage and networking you can. So that is another consideration in addition to the above (i.e. Go to the coast if you want to study marine fish instead of staying inland etc). I believe I was reading Shimek's blog and he mentioned that he studied something he thought was interesting and it turned out no one else was interested in researching that so he spent a lot of time working on something no one else wanted to pay him to do so that is something to keep in mind. As for the biotech animal disease question I am not in the field so I can't speak in absolutes but I know talking to my vet (who is a literal genius and so kind) that in veterinary medicine it is sad because advancements are so slow in veterinary medicine compared to human medicine because of the lack of interest/profitability resulting in little funding for research and slowing progress. Anyways if I were you with that in mind I would expect a sort of biotech degree to be more human focused if anything


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[JZinCO]

ddd

 

[JZinCO]

Stream ecology sounds cool!

Can you major in fisheries but have options such as come out and get a job as a aquatic ecologist? Or are you pretty limited by your specialization so that a fishery degree means you can only really break into a fishery job? ( when I think fishery I think stocking fish and propagation, I'm not sure how broad fishery degrees are as if it encompasses ecology as well?)

Consider this: Let's say you are working on a fishery management plan for reintroducing native trout to a stream system in an agricultural region from where they were extirpated. Hatching fish is just the beginning.
You ought to know about the biology of the fish, the habitat requirements, what stream classes the fish prefer, the physical characteristics of the streams, how land uses are altering the stream chemistry, turbidity, flow rates and temperature, local climate, how upstream development alters storm flow rates, the diet of the fish, how the fish interacts with other species, what policies constrain management of the fish, etc. Oh and you have to do this constrained by what the stakeholders demand (hydropower, irrigation, municipal use, recreation) and in line with policies, laws and regulations.

To do this you have to study limnology, geology, geography, hydrology, cellular and organismal biology, genetics, organic chemistry, ichthyology, community ecology, ecosystem ecology, climatology, meteorology, physics, calculus, policy & law, dendrology, plant identification, economics, the list goes on. That fisheries is so interdisciplinary means there is sooo much room for finding a niche. Ecotoxicology is one field you talked about and fisheries management is definitely a fine way to get there. But you'd have to concentrate on chemistry courses. Disease research, as well, and I would probably consider a research program in vet sciences after getting a bachelor's (not a regular DVM, but an actual science degree).

Go ahead and look up AFS, see about their curriculum. I'm sure they have a page talking about potential career pathways. For a century now, fisheries is much more than raising and stocking fish just like forestry is more than tree farming

 

[RadagastWizard]

I am surprised big money pet products don't fund research for things like disease cures for pet fish and other pets because right now if for example a real deal ich "24 hour cure in a bottle" came out all of us on this site would buy it

That would also be an interesting job. I'd love to study fish disease but I have no idea what job that is or if there is demand.

I don't really know who to go to for this kind of info, even with the internet when you get into specialized fields the info is limited. And I have no idea how to find a local biologist to Ask for advice

 

[RadagastWizard]

Consider this: Let's say you are working on a fishery management plan for reintroducing native trout to a stream system in an agricultural region from where they were extirpated. Hatching fish is just the beginning.
You ought to know about the biology of the fish, the habitat requirements, what stream classes the fish prefer, the physical characteristics of the streams, how land uses are altering the stream chemistry, turbidity, flow rates and temperature, local climate, how upstream development alters storm flow rates, the diet of the fish, how the fish interacts with other species, what policies constrain management of the fish, etc. Oh and you have to do this constrained by what the stakeholders demand (hydropower, irrigation, municipal use, recreation) and in line with policies, laws and regulations.

Can I start tomorrow?

Also, you said you do consulting on the side. What exactly do you mean by consulting and is that a way to increase your earnings? Like is it basically you are doing such a good job that outside companies ask you to do research for them part time on top of your job?

 

[JZinCO]

I think we're off topic for the new to the hobby forum so if admins will kindly move to the lounge...

Radagast, I just googled "APHIS fish disease" because I know APHIS does work on detecting and controlling pests and pathogens in the US and got this hit on google:https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ou...-information/aquaculture/ct_aquaculture_index So you know, that's a thing that people do for a living.

By consulting, yeah I mean working as an independent contractor. The consulting work I do is mostly writing land management plans for land owners to tell them how to modify their practices to improve their natural resources like forests, streams, livestock forage, etc. I also do things like fact-gather and write reports to help agencies inform decision making. Consulting is good and with low overhead can be good business but it's always going between 0 and 80 hrs/wk with no consistency.

 

[SFish]

It's good to pursue your dreams but at the end of the day you will have to go where the money is. I never got paid well for lab work and the sad thing is it's some of the most interesting work I've done. Even most QA jobs I've seen the people on the floor doing the manufacturing make more money then they do.

 

[RadagastWizard]

It's good to pursue your dreams but at the end of the day you will have to go where the money is. I never got paid well for lab work and the sad thing is it's some of the most interesting work I've done. Even most QA jobs I've seen the people on the floor doing the manufacturing make more money then they do.

What is a QA job?




Also to whoever can answer this.. would a fishery degree include things like fish culturing?

I've been looking into the links and info others have posted so thank you

 

[OllieNZ]

What is a QA job?

Quality assurance.

 

[SFish]

I can tell you at my last job I made double what QA did just by working in production. Unless your going after the medical field I'm afraid your not going to make much. Maybe see if you can get on some kinda R&D team the pay will probably be better.

 

[Tautoga]

Just wondering if there are any icthyologist/marine biologist/zoologists on here with advice on a career in the field

I'm really looking for a mentor as I'm going back to college as an untraditional student and I could use the advice on things like job outlook, what it's like, can you make a living doing it..

I have a bachelors in marine science an M.S. in Marine Environmental science and I have been working in the marine biology field for 21 years. I am currently a marine fisheries biologist working for New York State. In the course of my job I hire seasonal employees every year and I have hired permanent staff as well.

You definitely wont get rich in this field. Yes I am able to make a living. I am not getting rich, but I am able to, with my husbands salary, afford to live on Long Island NY and save for my retirement, pay for our house, cars, food and have a little left over to enjoy.

First, correct me if I am wrong, but I assume that since you are a non traditional student, you are not planning on moving to go to school and are looking into what is available to you near your home? Your profile does not say what state you are in so I cant give you specific advice based on where you are located.

What I know of the marine biology, natural resource management realm from 21 years in it is that jobs are very hard to come by and the competition for the ones available is fierce. A bachelors wont cut it, you will need a master of science degree to be competitive. Why? Because there are lots of people graduating with masters from marine biology, and wildlife management schools and there are not enough jobs for them all.

As for schooling. The field is extremely varied so you need to decide what area you are interested in and focus your schooling in that area. Because it is so varied, its difficult to cover all the bases.

I can only really speak for my state and assume it is similar for other states.

Mine and many other states require you to take and pass a civil service exam to get a permanent state job. Often, as in my state, you not only have to pass but be within 3 grades of the top person willing to take the job to get hired. So if the top person scored a 90 on the test, you need to have an 80 or better. The requirements to take the test includes specific course work in the related discipline. For example, my title as biologist has 3 versions of that title in my state (marine, freshwater, and ecology). To take each test, you need coursework in those disciplines. I qualified to take the marine and iirc the freshwater one but not the ecology one.

An AFS certification is a nice credential, but it is not necessary. AFS does have a lot of nice info to help guide you in things that people in this field look for in potential employees. The main thing is you have the right educational background. If you are interested in resource management, look for a school that has those kinds of classes and program.

The second main thing is that you get experience through volunteering or internships, seasonal positions etc. Anything you can do or learn that is relevant is helpful.

Computer experience is a must. Get comfortable with things like Microsoft word, excel, access, powerpoint. Learn to deal with the drudgery of data entry. Doing it right, diligence and making sure there are no mistakes are more important than speed.

Being a jack of all trades is helpful. Being comfortable in the field, sometimes in inclement weather and 100 degree days, as well as competent at doing lab work, data entry and analysis will help you and your employer.

Being able to work in small groups as well as independently and getting the job done without someone having to hold your hand or sit on you is a must.

I hope this answers your questions and gives you some guidance as to what direction to take.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[RadagastWizard]

I have a bachelors in marine science an M.S. in Marine Environmental science and I have been working in the marine biology field for 21 years. I am currently a marine fisheries biologist working for New York State. In the course of my job I hire seasonal employees every year and I have hired permanent staff as well.

You definitely wont get rich in this field. Yes I am able to make a living. I am not getting rich, but I am able to, with my husbands salary, afford to live on Long Island NY and save for my retirement, pay for our house, cars, food and have a little left over to enjoy.

First, correct me if I am wrong, but I assume that since you are a non traditional student, you are not planning on moving to go to school and are looking into what is available to you near your home? Your profile does not say what state you are in so I cant give you specific advice based on where you are located.

What I know of the marine biology, natural resource management realm from 21 years in it is that jobs are very hard to come by and the competition for the ones available is fierce. A bachelors wont cut it, you will need a master of science degree to be competitive. Why? Because there are lots of people graduating with masters from marine biology, and wildlife management schools and there are not enough jobs for them all.

As for schooling. The field is extremely varied so you need to decide what area you are interested in and focus your schooling in that area. Because it is so varied, its difficult to cover all the bases.

I can only really speak for my state and assume it is similar for other states.

Mine and many other states require you to take and pass a civil service exam to get a permanent state job. Often, as in my state, you not only have to pass but be within 3 grades of the top person willing to take the job to get hired. So if the top person scored a 90 on the test, you need to have an 80 or better. The requirements to take the test includes specific course work in the related discipline. For example, my title as biologist has 3 versions of that title in my state (marine, freshwater, and ecology). To take each test, you need coursework in those disciplines. I qualified to take the marine and iirc the freshwater one but not the ecology one.

An AFS certification is a nice credential, but it is not necessary. AFS does have a lot of nice info to help guide you in things that people in this field look for in potential employees. The main thing is you have the right educational background. If you are interested in resource management, look for a school that has those kinds of classes and program.

The second main thing is that you get experience through volunteering or internships, seasonal positions etc. Anything you can do or learn that is relevant is helpful.

Computer experience is a must. Get comfortable with things like Microsoft word, excel, access, powerpoint. Learn to deal with the drudgery of data entry. Doing it right, diligence and making sure there are no mistakes are more important than speed.

Being a jack of all trades is helpful. Being comfortable in the field, sometimes in inclement weather and 100 degree days, as well as competent at doing lab work, data entry and analysis will help you and your employer.

Being able to work in small groups as well as independently and getting the job done without someone having to hold your hand or sit on you is a must.

I hope this answers your questions and gives you some guidance as to what direction to take.

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.

Thanks so much for taking the time to write such an informative post

I'm from Pittsburgh PA and I've stocked trout here with the pa game commission so a hatchery job always interested me

My mom recently passed away and I was caring for her so now that I'm on my own I'm trying to pick a career and work at it. I've already volunteered at a wildlife rehab for 3 months and I loved it so I believe anything biology related I would love it's just I don't know if I can find a job after graduation and one that pays well.

I'm willing to work my way up the ranks. Money isn't everything as my lawyer once told me a higher salary doesn't always mean it's a better job..

 

[disc1]

My advice would be this, don't go into the field just for the sake of the field. From where you stand now it sounds like the kind of field that you'd like to go into, but without a plan you'll just end up like so many other science students, waiting tables because it pays more.

The secret to going into science is to already have the job figured out. What I mean is figure out what exactly you want to study, very specifically, like perhaps you want to study the use of electrolysis in reef rebuilding. OK now that you have a specific thing you want to study and become an expert in, you go and find a professor at some University that studies that.

Getting into college, especially grad school, as a scientist is different from going into anything else. Even if you have the qualifications, there's no guarantee that you get in. But if you have a plan, idea, research project picked out then you go talk to someone who studies that field and tell them you want to work specifically with them and why you bring something novel to the table and you can get into school with no qualifications at all. This is a guarantee if you have something that you can write a grant for. Any professor will get you in no matter what if you already have a grant started. Wanna go to MIT? Forget applying and going through the regular channels, you'll likely never get in. But you find some professor at MIT who will talk to you and likes your idea and suddenly you get in ahead of everyone else. It's not fair. It's not how they advertise it working. But it works.

OK, so maybe you don't have that idea yet. Don't fret. Go get started on an undergrad degree somewhere. Get all your basics down and start getting into the field. When the idea comes to you you'll know it. One day something will click, some teacher will say, "Nobody knows that" and you'll decide that you have to find out.

Now you're still not going to make a ton of money. There's no money in science. But at least you'll have something that you're so dedicated to that you would do it for free. And that's the secret. Don't go into science unless you would be willing to go into the same science and work the rest of your life in poverty for free. It's like being a monk or something except that sometimes you can get lucky and get a patent or something that will sell and make some money. But those are rare. The vast majority of people in science today are doing it for the love, not the money.

 

[disc1]

The other thing that is important to understand about going to school for science is that in the sciences learning is a lot more your responsibility than in most other fields. If you go for accounting you'll go to class and they'll teach you the things you need to know to be an accountant. But if you go for chemistry they'll give you the raw basics and a great environment to learn more. But if you just focus on what's being taught in class and making the grade you'll find that by your junior year everyone else seems to be way ahead of you.

Back in the old old ancient days, school was a place you could go to learn and the professors were resources for you to use but they didn't really care if you learned or not. They gave you the environment and access to the information, but the responsibility to learn it was completely on you.

Nowadays school is a little different. People go there expecting to be taught, not to just learn. And in many fields that will happen and someone will teach you. In science they'll teach you too, but you can't possibly get all of it that way. You can't even get the basics that way. If you're not going to be the guy going outside of class to learn the next thing they didn't teach then you will regret going into science. You gotta be the one who wants to get involved in research projects and extra stuff outside of class if you want to be successful.

If I had a nickel for every person with a Chemistry degree that can't get a job in it because they can't really do it I'd not ever have to work again. I've seen them from both ends, as a teacher and as an employer. It makes me sad when I see it. They did everything they had to do to get the piece of paper, but they didn't really learn how to think like a Chemist and they'll never get more than an introductory job in the field.

What I'm saying is, if you go in go ALL IN. Like Mr. Miyagi said in The Karate Kid, you science do, OK. You science not do, ok. You science kinda of do, pretty soon squish just like grape.

 

[eastlake]

Tossing in two more cents on a comment mentioned a couple posts ago. If you're in it for fisheries biology Alaska is the hot bed, some one earlier mentioned an observership, they're always looking for new observers for the program. If memory serves its a 90 day contract period and when the contract is up you can sign right on for another or do what some other people do and take your money down to Hawaii until it runs out then sign back on.

 

[RadagastWizard]

I would definitely sign on for a 90 day period but I don't have my bachelors yet which I believe is a requirement but thanks I'll look into the Alaska thing!