Black Bugs or some kind of FW ?

[aqua80]

2 months ago I found these bugs in good numbers on an sick efflo...

bigger and slower than red bugs...
not seen any on other corals...

on some pics you can see a spiky tail :

shortly after that my widespread acropora stn began and is still continuing as of today...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2227583

anyone seen anything like this ??

 

[aqua80]

two more slightly better pics...

 

[Reef Bass]

Those are small arthropods, not platyhelminthes. So some kind of bug, not a flatworm. As such I'd be tempted to treat them as one would redbugs (another small arthropod).

 

[aqua80]

thanks Reef Bass !

found these ressources to try to id them...

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/corals

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/3/corals

read that these bugs can also transmit bacterial pathogens like vibrio bacteria...
wondering if this could be the cause of my widespread stn crash in progress...

 

[Reef Bass]

Good links. I know Steve Ruddy who supplied some of the images in the articles.

Yes, copepods chewing on the coral flesh could leave it susceptible to secondary infections from bacteria. If you're thinking that's what's going on, I'd consider an iodine based dip for topical disinfection.

 

[aqua80]

Good links. I know Steve Ruddy who supplied some of the images in the articles.

Yes, copepods chewing on the coral flesh could leave it susceptible to secondary infections from bacteria. If you're thinking that's what's going on, I'd consider an iodine based dip for topical disinfection.

I dosed the first interceptor tx this night since it is my main theory to explain the crash for now... so this might halt the spread, but your idea of topical disinfection for already sick corals might be worth a try...

thanks again !

 

[Reef Bass]

I find iodine dips can help lessen damage and speed recovery following fragging and even after stings as well. Pretty much what one would expect from reducing bacteria on the surface.

As with all dips, one needs to balance the stress caused by the dip with the current health of the coral. Iodine can be fairly stressful and adding stress to an already way unhappy coral is not likely to end well.

 

[aqua80]

As with all dips, one needs to balance the stress caused by the dip with the current health of the coral. Iodine can be fairly stressful and adding stress to an already way unhappy coral is not likely to end well.

for sure !
but I have nothing to loose... all may acroporas but 2 have been regressing slowly and dying since the last 2 months...
But most still look good when you don't see the base...

like this tort :

while beeing infested and dipping corals I took the opportunity to take some shots...

First AEFW eggs :

closer look of intact eggs :

and hatched eggs...

Adult still hanging on a branch after the dip :

but finally in the bucket :

and another kind of bug ? not moving after the interceptor tx...

on the picture we can see the iodine solution staining some parts of the coral where there is no flesh left...

enjoy !

 

[REEF SMAC]

I just dip in revive with a mixture of 50% water of the bag and 50% water from the tank then put in the tank !
If it was not for the dipping I would put it directly in the tank with no acclimatation at all..

So how has that been working out for you?

Those are some amazing pics BTW.

 

[aqua80]

So how has that been working out for you?

you mean about the acclimatation process or the effectiveness of the dip ?
with this method of dipping only (even with most of the time glueing the frag to a new plug before the dip) I still got Red Bugs 2 times, AEFW and some other kinds of bugs...

Only way not to have pest beside not adding corals is to QT for sure...
This is what I will do for no on for my new setup...

As for the acclimation part never loss any coral with it...

 

[trueblackpercula]

Doesn't any body treat the corals before adding them to the display tank anymore? Dip everything twice and it will surly cut down of problems like the one above.

 

[aqua80]

Doesn't any body treat the corals before adding them to the display tank anymore? Dip everything twice and it will surly cut down of problems like the one above.

always dipped + most of the time reglue on a frag plug, but only once if the dip/inspection did not showed anything...

but it is clearly not enough...

 

[trueblackpercula]

I am just starting my tank over loosing everything to the storm sandy....I will not put anything in my tank unless dipped dipped and redipped....is there anything better then revive because that's what I use. I was also told a strong dip in an I iodine solution works well but never tried it. What did you use to dip prior to putting sps in your tank?

 

[aqua80]

I am just starting my tank over loosing everything to the storm sandy....I will not put anything in my tank unless dipped dipped and redipped....is there anything better then revive because that's what I use. I was also told a strong dip in an I iodine solution works well but never tried it. What did you use to dip prior to putting sps in your tank?

sorry about your loss...
most of the time I dipped with coralrx and lastly with revive...
but because of the eggs... Qt for 4-6 weeks with 2-3 dips in this time lapse + close observation seems the only way to me now to be sure...

 

[REEF SMAC]

you mean about the acclimatation process or the effectiveness of the dip ?

I'm guessing that the acclimatation part went just fine. For the coral as well as the pests.

with this method of dipping only (even with most of the time glueing the frag to a new plug before the dip) I still got Red Bugs 2 times, AEFW and some other kinds of bugs...

This is exactly why it is stunning to me, how many reefers, put so much faith into these dips.

Only way not to have pest beside not adding corals is to QT for sure...
This is what I will do for no on for my new setup...

Sorry to hear (and see in your photos) why you've come over to this way of thinking. You've been thrown a harsh lesson that hopefully many here will pay attention to and learn from.

I'm sure someone will chime in here soon to tell you how "QT is just too much hassle" and "how easy it is to get rid of these pests". (or live with them)

As for the acclimation part never loss any coral with it...

I agree that the acclimation is definitely the easiest part.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Quarantine is with out a doubt the best method as long as you are using the best treatments. For most in the hobby including myself space is a big issue not to mention a setup that would with out a doubt cost if done correctly will cost close to $500 bucks. Tank lights filtration treatments salt mix and a skimmer plus water changes and space....there really has to be a great dip out there that will help or even a full tank medication.

I can't believe that with all the stuff that is sold for aquariums nobody can find a cure for flatworms or even red bugs.
Just my opinion ,,,,,

 

[SpinyReef]

Jeez Simon, those are quite the macro shots. What are you shooting with again?

 

[aqua80]

Jeez Simon, those are quite the macro shots. What are you shooting with again?

thanks Olivier !
pentax k-r with 100mm macro lense and for theses shots a good sturdy tripod and 2sec shutter delay

 

[REEF SMAC]

I'm sure someone will chime in here soon to tell you how "QT is just too much hassle" and "how easy it is to get rid of these pests". (or live with them)

Quarantine is with out a doubt the best method as long as you are using the best treatments. For most in the hobby including myself space is a big issue not to mention a setup that would with out a doubt cost

Or that they don't have the space, or that it costs too much, etc., etc.....

if done correctly will cost close to $500 bucks. Tank lights filtration treatments salt mix and a skimmer plus water changes and space....there really has to be a great dip out there that will help or even a full tank medication

As long as you never buy more than $500 worth of corals, then its probably not worth it.
Plenty of examples on this forum of people that lost way more than $500 worth of fish and/or corals because they came up with an excuse not to QT.

If there was such a thing as this "great dip" you dream of, everyone I'm sure would be using it, including myself.

Obviously everyone is not using the "great dip" because there is thread after thread, everyday, asking how to rid their tank of some kind of pest.

I can't believe that with all the stuff that is sold for aquariums nobody can find a cure for flatworms or even red bugs.
Just my opinion ,,,,,

I agree.

Think of what an awesome reef tank you could have with all the money you would make if you came up that in tank cure for AEFW.

Jeez Simon, those are quite the macro shots.

Again, they are really amazing.

Thanks for sharing those.

 

[aqua80]

Reviving this thread to continue the discussion with other kind of black bugs on a pokerstar montipora (in bad shape) this time...

and a litlle video of theses (click HD)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Zq9LHn_n6zg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

RPS all-out dip seems to have kill these in a minute or two (stopped moving)