black ray gobies.

[gogo7]

Good luck!! Have you tried using small copepod species, like Parvocalanus spp? Their nauplii might be small enough to be eaten.

How did you pair your gobies? Do you know if they're gonochoristic, or do they change sex?

hey ichy, i haven't tried parvo. i keep my eyes out at the lfs for it.
the only other species of copepod i've tried are tangerines. and that was because that's all that was available. (note to any canadians with parvo.. can you pm me if you have some to part with?)
i have so many harpies (tigriops i think) that i think i'm gonna start bottling it. i just gotta find out what species it is.
i've figured out how to harvest just their nauplii in the containers i culture them in. i've bombarded the gobies with them. i'm not sure if they're part of the success or not.
i seriously think that gobies first foods are phyto. they pick up a green glow in their first twenty four hours. i think they're eating phyto. i noticed this phenom with shrimp and crab larvae as well. i'm not sure though
my solution to this is to provide a living soup of micro inverts and planktons to offer as much variety as possible to get them through their first forty eight hours. it has been just over twenty four hours and i still count about eight in that little cup. and the little ones i see, i can now see that their eyes are two separate dots, and that they have a stomach. so they must be eating something. they are alert and hunting, not sluggish and dying. i'm really happy.

the pairing of this pair of gobies was rather cruel on my part. i setup this four gallon vase with the intent of breeding these gobies. with a dsb and pistol shrimps. i purchased a pair out of a trio from my lfs.
they settled in good, but then they started to fight. so i purchased the last of the trio and added it to the four gallon vase.
the three of them settled in like they were a happy family for about a month, all three helped the pistols build a larger entrance to the now antfarm looking setup. then the original pair turned on each other. they were males. they were living with each other happily for a few months.
then they turned on each other. it was brutal. i left another sites forums for the pics i posted about it. it was brutal. the two males in the front of the vase in the tunnels going at it for a few days... i couldn't and wouldn't rescue the weaker. they were equals for a while. then it became fatal. i tried to rescue the near corpse, but it was too late.
it was an expense i took into consideration, given my project. i never gave the 'animal cruelty' nonsense to heart.
i've bred fish for most of my life, this being my first saltwater that i planned for... i actually chose to breed these fish. and after the happy couple settled in, they were breeding almost right away. they took me by surprise. i thought i'd have to start some serious mysid cultures... thankfully not.

 

[kizanne]

So how are the little ones?

I wish I could stabilize my phyto cultures. I lost my Chaeto and iso. I have nanno and tetra. fortunately the parvo will grow quite well on tetra. I wish it was it was easy to ship you copepods my parvo is going well and the babies are very small.

 

[gogo7]

So how are the little ones?

I wish I could stabilize my phyto cultures. I lost my Chaeto and iso. I have nanno and tetra. fortunately the parvo will grow quite well on tetra. I wish it was it was easy to ship you copepods my parvo is going well and the babies are very small.

i had four left this morning. came home to none.
the last couple of days i've been putting in the hours at work so they've gone at least twelve hours without much in the way of plankton. i think they starved. they were going strong for a couple of days.
i've got to set up an auto feeder for the ciliates. i'll be figuring that out before the next clutch.
i'm definitely keeping the fry in the dt with the parents, separated by a netted cup. the convenience for me is obvious, that and i don't trust transferring the fry. they're so tiny i think they're too fragile to survive.
when i can get them to outgrow the four ounce cup, i'll consider a rearing tank. i seriously think the fry were eating phyto as a first food. this batch was given dunaliella and tetraselmis, as well as the ciliates rotis copepods and bbs. which was kinda comical. the nauplii of bs are bigger than the goby fry!
that parvo would be nice. really nice. i really gotta getta scope.
i'm really glad i just keep these cultures going and had some to use.
i'll be ready wednesday night for the next batch.
the parents are out and hovering, feeding. getting fat.
the female is eating everything and looks like she's gonna splode.
thanks for the offer kiz. you've inspired me to get off my arse and get some different species. i've got a few days off to go get some things.


on a different note, i'm thinking of setting up a different vase, same setup, but some other gobies. whatdaya think kiz. you've got the mandys going.
i'm definitely thinking shrimp gobie, and small... really small.
what do you think?

 

[kizanne]

well I'd be more excited about the mandarins if I could hatch the eggs. Which it would help if they would spawn on days I stay in the room LOL. Tonight I spent time maintaining cultures and such so of course no spawn tonight. He tried to get her in the mood but no such luck.

I think a second vase would be great. I'd think Yasha's would be nice, but I don't know if anyone has been successful.

I think you are right that in the beginning they might eat a motile algae like tetra or iso or a combo for the diverse nutrition. I know that has been hinted at for Mandarins but for mandy's it has to be motile to trigger the feeding response.

I can also tell you my tisbe babies some are less than 45 microns. I strained a culture today and some babies got through the 45. I also know my parvo's are smaller. I know they are popular for breeding. I have had luck keeping tisbe's and parvo's in decent numbers. I have psuedo's but they haven't had a population explosion. My tangerines are making it despite the rotifer contamination but they are too big for first foods. The A. Tonsa doesn't like my lack of care and tetra regimen. I might give them a second try later. parvo's are good because they are pelagic at all stages but I think tisbe might be a better set it and forget it larva rearing because the adults are bethnic and the babies pelagic so your fish larva wouldn't be eating your breeding population you'd just have to keep the phyto right.

 

[gogo7]

i came home to a few goby fry swimming on the surface.
i scooped them into that little floaty cup. there wasn't enough of them to bother with the setup i'd made in the twopointsix gallon vase.
i couldn't find any fry this week at lights out, and last night there were no fry what so ever.
this morning none either. i hope i didn't miss the clutch.
i've been keeping the planktons higher than usual just in case something like this happens. tetra duna and nanno. rotis copepods and ciliates. brine shrimp and these red generic fishfood pellets i picked up a couple of years ago. i also feed a few drops of the yeastmix every other day or so. sponge food. i do a daily water change of about half gallon. give or take a litre. i've been trying to maintain the vase on daily top ups, on and off, but the corals get moody if they don't get a decent water change. they close down a bit. and with all that food floating around in there i'm surprised nitrates are less than 5ppm .

some new points of observation. during incubation, the male is below in the nest, the female hovers over the entrance. when i got home from work around nine, they were both out hovering at a new entrance ...waiting for me to come and fatten them up some more. considering he's been underground for four days, the male looks pretty good.
he doesn't like having his picture taken. i think it's the lense on the camera.
here's a pic from tonight.

they are good healthy animals. i wanna keep them that way. i've read that these fish live for at least fifteen years. i should really start considering their diets. they don't really do much in the way of caloric burning. he spends all his time in the tunnels.and she just hangs in the water column picking copepods all day. and she eats everything in sight. i hate to break out the pellets to feed the other animals, because if any pellets slip, she gobbles them all up.
although i have seen her spit pellets and oyster flesh at a pistol. but i think she eats most of the pellets she gets. i'm starting to think of the pellets as treats, as opposed to actual food.

tonights feed is adult brine.

i've been running without the hob on for a few days. it's air driven and there's no filter in it. it just acts like a sump, for the heater and the drip systems. i just don't wanna risk banging them around.

i've got four in the cup at the moment. i'm gonna try my best to keep them alive.

 

[kizanne]

Wow. fry again. Congratz. if you are worried about the nutrition of the pellet you could soak them in selco before feeding.

 

[gogo7]

i hate to drag this thread to the top again....but i had another batch tonight.
and to top it off... my randalls pistols let a clutch go too. right after light out... my four gallon vase looks really cool right now.... the only thing is i can't get any good pics or video.
baby fish and baby pistol shrimps...
good news though, tomorrow is microscope day! so at least i'll have something to look at with my new scope. i'm gonna try again to keep something alive... i've got all this plankton an keep failing at it. defeated is an understatement.... but 'm off for the next few days, cranking the tunes and taking care of my new charges. round the clock feeding, i'm going straight to rotis with the zoa. trying the ciliates with the larva....
i hope i can atleast get some good pics. it's already three in the moringin

 

[kizanne]

So exciting you had babies again! You might try lining your cup with some 25 micron fabric so that all your plankton doesn't escape into your tank.

 

[gogo7]

So exciting you had babies again! You might try lining your cup with some 25 micron fabric so that all your plankton doesn't escape into your tank.

well, eight hours later, i've only got a few shrimp zoa left....
i don't know what the heck i'm doing wrong... all my perameters are in line, water is clean, warm and not polluted with anything other than fresh plankton.

i'm not throwing in the towel .... i'm picking up that microscope today.
hey kiz, what kind did you get?

 

[kizanne]

I sprung for an Amscope M158C. It has from 40x to 2500x (but doubt that one works well). It has a fine adjustment knob and a camera that comes with software. So far I like it alot.

 

[kizanne]

sorry think it stops at 1000x. I don't usually use more then 250x

I like 40x for copepods and 250x for algae

 

[ichthyogeek]

gogo7, what's the density of the plankton like in your vase? The micron size of the food?

 

[gogo7]

hey guys, i just picked up a celstron something something with a digital imager...
i've still got a full vase of fish larva, only a few shrimp zoa left.
i'm going to be working on this after dinner, and probably through the night.
i really can't wait to see the stuff i'm culitvating and see where i keep messing up.
as far as i know, i'm using two different ciliate at the moment. can't wait to see how wrong i am.
be prepared for a pic heavy thread.

 

[Auston]

Yay upload those pics

 

[gogo7]

gogo7, what's the density of the plankton like in your vase? The micron size of the food?

it can get pretty thick in there sometimes. i've been trying to keep it at about five visible animals per mil. that changes over an hour. i get major algae with overfeeding even though i give daily water changes.
the main plankton is L type rotifers and ciliates. there's a really healthy harp. copepod population thats been getting a weekly topup... and because they've basically overtaken everything with water in it.
the plankton culture manual lists tetraselmis at 9-10 x 12-14 microns, and dunaliella as 5-8 x 7-14 microns. i'm dosing them twice daily. yeast as well.
i've gotta get some more nanno.... it's really tiny stuff.
in the rearing vase i can keep the density up even higher.

 

[gogo7]

hello folks.
it's time to see what the heck i've been prattling on about for all these months.

firstly, thanks to auston who drove me out to the scope store to get my new celestron.
i've been jonesing for this for a long time.
i never realised how much i didn't know about microscope......software....
anyways, on to the show

i have to mention that this was probably the largest clutch of larva i've seen yet. the female gobie has been so fat lately, i think she's hitting her stride.
the vase was still full of them this afternoon.
but their numbers have dropped to a few dozen or so. and they're in the smaller vase.
i really think the biggest killer of the babies are my corals. the vase was full of larva laden mucus. i isolated and rehoused a few dozen, while i tried to learn how to operate the microscope. same goes for the rest of the pistol shrimp zoa.

this is the set up for larva rearing that i'm using.

shrimp zoa on the left, fish on the right.
those are modded emptied pop bottles. i can keep the plankton density high.
it's at 82' f and fullo bloody hydroids........yeah.... so i had that problem to play with as well.... i used to think hydroids were cute, and never bothered to remove them.... kicking myself now. so i gotta set up something better in the future.

 

[gogo7]

blue filter

head shot

gut

 

[gogo7]

alpheus randalls zoa

this looks like the cause of death

 

[gogo7]

tetraselmis... this is the coolest thing to watch... all these little green things are actually swimming around. and they're plants

dunaliella.

and i got to find out that my tetraselmis culture is contaminated.

 

[gogo7]

sorry think it stops at 1000x. I don't usually use more then 250x

I like 40x for copepods and 250x for algae

you're right about that. the extra magnification can only be useful for bacterias and things like that.