black&white occ clownfish agression

[spamreefnew]

I have 3 thats right 3 b&w clowns. they have all been in the same tank for about 4 years now. They used to host in a BTA but that got sucked into the powerhead and died,now they host in my hammer coral. over the last few months the largest (by far) clown has become overly aggressive towards me when I place my hand in the tank for cleaning and he will kill any newcomers to the tank instantly. The clowns are NOT breeding so its not that. I think this clown killed my skunk shrimp and emerald crabs. any way to calm him down? remove him? remove one of the others? get a BTA?

 

[SammyJ916]

Wow I would say get rid of him, that's unusual for a clown. I have had aggressive maroons before but nothing to that extent

 

[K916]

My B&W used to chase the second smallest Perc like crazy but they seem to have found a balance and all 5 (2B&W and 3 percs) all live together like one happy family

I recently saw some beautiful Tomato Clowns but I dont want to upset the power balance in my tank

 

[spamreefnew]

yea he is a mean bugger,,never used to be like that b-4

 

[SkullV]

If it is the largest one then it is the Female in the group, the second largest being the male and the smallest is unsexed. It is very normal or female clownfish of any species to be biters during tank maintenance especially when they are hosting something.

 

[rallim]

Most of my clown nip at me when i clean the tanks.

 

[davocean]

Are you sure you're just not seeing the eggs?
I'm curious why in 4 years they would not be spawning?
I would bet they just started, and that's when often 3's a crowd, and sometimes everyone else.

 

[bues0022]

If the OP is a minimalist feeder, then it might be possible for the clowns to not get enough food/energy to actually spawn??

I agree with others though, it's not uncommon for a sexually mature (spawning or not) to become aggressive with your hand during maintenance. I'm not sure I'd put the blame on the clown for cleaning your emerald crab and cleaner shrimp though. They don't live an incredibly long time, and I've had several die from seemingly unknown causes. You could always just trade them with a local or LFS for a young juvi pair that won't be agressive because of their age.

 

[spamreefnew]

I feed heavily. maybe she IS ready to spawn...? I guess I will try to get rid of the smallest clown and put the money towards a nem so they can have a happy home again,,maybe then she wont kill new fish as soon as they hit the water?

 

[CockyBrock]

If it is the largest one then it is the Female in the group, the second largest being the male and the smallest is unsexed. It is very normal or female clownfish of any species to be biters during tank maintenance especially when they are hosting something.

First off, the smallest is a male. It's not unsexed. Just not the breeding male.

Second, if the female is aggressive, then there could be eggs but my guess would be that if there eggs, the OP would notice the breeding female/male occupying one spot pretty much 100% of the time and not venturing out to attack him or any newly introduced residents.

The female could be hungry but I'd speculate they're just mean and have become very territorial in their tank since they've been in there 4+ years...

I have a spawning pair of onyx that eat out of my hand and have never once attacked me, even when they have eggs....

My two cents anyways...

 

[SkullV]

First off, the smallest is a male. It's not unsexed. Just not the breeding male.

Just wanted to come back to this and see if anyone else had any info? The more I read the more it looks like the smallest clowns in a group are indeed sexually immature and neither male or female (unsexed). CockyBrock can you point me to any documentation that the smallest clowns in a group are indeed males and not unsexed?

 

[SkullV]

^^^?

 

[Sfork]

They all start off male. Think of it like puberty:

male -> breeding male

Then super puberty

breeding male -> female.

of course unlike humans it has (almost) nothing to do with age and wholly relies on the situation.

 

[Samcro]

Just wanted to come back to this and see if anyone else had any info? The more I read the more it looks like the smallest clowns in a group are indeed sexually immature and neither male or female (unsexed). CockyBrock can you point me to any documentation that the smallest clowns in a group are indeed males and not unsexed?

all the info on what i have been reading seems to back your post up.
it even states that in the Joyce Wilkersons book page 26 and 27. they are referred to as adolescents and remain small and incapable of sexual reproduction.

 

[SkullV]

all the info on what i have been reading seems to back your post up.
it even states that in the Joyce Wilkersons book page 26 and 27. they are referred to as adolescents and remain small and incapable of sexual reproduction.

That is also what I read, in addition to many experts posts here on RC. I was just wondering if anyone had any documentation to support that they are born male and not born unsexed.

 

[Sfork]

I've read male in my readings but I don't keep track I'll try to look it up. A pre-pubescent human boy is incapable of sexual reproduction that doesn't make him not male.

edit: wikipedia

Protandry: Where an organism is born as a male, and then changes sex to a female.[4]
Example: The clownfish (Genus Amphiprion) are colorful reef fish found living in symbiosis with sea anemones. Generally one anemone contains a 'harem', consisting of a large female, a smaller reproductive male, and even smaller non-reproductive males. If the female is removed, the reproductive male will change sex and the largest of the non-reproductive males will mature and become reproductive. It has been shown that fishing pressure can change when the switch from male to female occurs, since fishermen naturally prefer to catch the larger fish. The populations are generally changing sex at a smaller size, due to natural selection.


The opposite is, Protogyny: Where the organism starts as a female, and then changes sex to a male.[4]
Example: wrasses (Family Labridae) are a group of reef fish in which protogyny is common



I know wiki isnt the best but you can follow the references. Also there doesn't seem to be a born with "no sex" option under Hermaphrodite

 

[wheelspin]

I have a large gsm and a pair of ocellaris in my tank. The female ocellaris has always been a little jerk when a hand goes into the tank and the gsm & other ocellaris could not care less.

 

[MarinaP]

Just wanted to come back to this and see if anyone else had any info? The more I read the more it looks like the smallest clowns in a group are indeed sexually immature and neither male or female (unsexed). CockyBrock can you point me to any documentation that the smallest clowns in a group are indeed males and not unsexed?

From Shedd's Aquarium website:

Reproduction
Anemone clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites, which means they can start their life as a male and then change to female. These fish are born with both male and female sex organs. Usually a group of anemone clownfish lives in the same anemone or there are a few anemones close together where a group of these fish live. The largest fish in the group is a female and the second biggest is a male. All the other clownfish are neuter, which means they have not fully developed functioning sex organs for either gender. If the female should die, the male will change sex, while the biggest neuter clownfish will develop functioning male sex organs to replace the male.

 

[SkullV]

From Shedd's Aquarium website:

Reproduction
Anemone clownfish are protandrous hermaphrodites, which means they can start their life as a male and then change to female. These fish are born with both male and female sex organs. Usually a group of anemone clownfish lives in the same anemone or there are a few anemones close together where a group of these fish live. The largest fish in the group is a female and the second biggest is a male. All the other clownfish are neuter, which means they have not fully developed functioning sex organs for either gender. If the female should die, the male will change sex, while the biggest neuter clownfish will develop functioning male sex organs to replace the male.

So this is proof that the juveniles are unsexed and not actually male. It contradicts itself within its own description.

 

[Samcro]

So this is proof that the juveniles are unsexed and not actually male. It contradicts itself within its own description.

right.
so they are neither male or female, they are both. lol