Blue carpet problem?
- Thread starter sufunk
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sufunk
New member
Well not much change so figured i wouldn't bore everyone with the constant inflating and deflating reports but just now there was a difference. He was looking good most of the day according to my wife. I got home and he was looking REALLY good but then deflated about 15 minutes ago.
Now he is slightly gaping and "smoking"
He is excreting some king of milky substance. I know i've read of them spawning and clouding a tank but i cant imagine this guy is spawning.
Any ideas why he is smoking or what i should do???
I put some carbon in the sump and i'm gonna run and get 30-40 gallons of water to do a waterchange if i need to right now.
Now he is slightly gaping and "smoking"
He is excreting some king of milky substance. I know i've read of them spawning and clouding a tank but i cant imagine this guy is spawning.Any ideas why he is smoking or what i should do???
I put some carbon in the sump and i'm gonna run and get 30-40 gallons of water to do a waterchange if i need to right now.
timrandlerv10
New member
hey sufunk, sometimes when i drive with the emergency brake on, the back wheels 'smoke' a bit...did you check his brake?
sorry...couldnt resist...
i know this is heart wrenching and stomach cramping, but let me make sure i get this:
everyday, he inflates and deflates just about the same time, his mouth was gaping (but guts were all inside) and now his mouth is more closed than before. he is fairly sticky, and is either in one spot or moves around 'decisively' (as in he isnt getting blown around the tank randomly).
correct me if i'm wrong, but all that sounds like he's getting better. keep the salinity, temp and ph static, and let the others trade in a narrow band as possible, and...wait?
resisting the temptation to stick my hand in my tank today because i havent found a good reason to (yet),
tim
sorry...couldnt resist...
i know this is heart wrenching and stomach cramping, but let me make sure i get this:
everyday, he inflates and deflates just about the same time, his mouth was gaping (but guts were all inside) and now his mouth is more closed than before. he is fairly sticky, and is either in one spot or moves around 'decisively' (as in he isnt getting blown around the tank randomly).
correct me if i'm wrong, but all that sounds like he's getting better. keep the salinity, temp and ph static, and let the others trade in a narrow band as possible, and...wait?
resisting the temptation to stick my hand in my tank today because i havent found a good reason to (yet),
tim
55semireef
Moved On
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10544523#post10544523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sufunk
Now he is slightly gaping and "smoking"
Any ideas why he is smoking or what i should do???
Ahh, makes me think your Gigantea is fighting off a bacterial infection for sure. I have read several times when anemones are under stress and they emitt some type of substance that appears to make it look like it's smoking it is fighting off a bacterial infection. I could be wrong but I wouldn't doubt myself.
See what others say.
Ladipyg
New member
OK, I've now rescued 5 "dead" carpet anemones given to me by various people, including a local LFS, cause they were sure they were not going to survive.
I used this method to help the most recent "dead" carpet anemone recover. A pet shop gave it to me because it was rolling around on the bottom of the tank with a gaping mouth, no color and no stick to the tentacles. I placed it into an acrylic fish breeder with a slotted bottom and clipped it to the side of the tank with a good area of flow. Put the rim at least 1 1/2 inches below the surface of the water. I got an all plastic, ratcheting clamp from home depot to secure the breeder to the tank. It's very secure and you don't have to worry about suction cups letting go and dumping your anemone into something in the tank. Good water flow is VERY IMPORTANT... ..I bounced the flow from a small Tunze off the glass to direct it into the bottom of the feeder and had another pump bouncing water over the top. I think this surrounding it with flow works best. Nothing is direct enough to cause the anemone to roll around, but it's easy to see the volume of exchange. I fed it 4 or 5 times daily by gently depositing food directly deep into the mouth, being careful not to puncture it with the pipette. Just gently puff the food in, I added a drop of garlic guard to the food to help it's immune system. Some of the food will not stay in it's mouth, but enough must make it because all mine recovered. Since it was clipped to the top of the tank the anemone got plenty of MH light. Now 6 weeks later the anemone is again bright green with pink stripes, it is holding on tightly to the feeder, has super sticky tentacles and grabs the pipette so firmly that it's hard to get it back. I no longer have to feed it directly into it's mouth (which has since returned to normal) as it is able to feed itself again moving food to it's mouth on it's own. I am going to put a piece of holey rock in with it and see if it will move on it's own so that I can safely move it into the tank.
Trial and error has shown this method to work the best...the first anemone I did this with is still alive 3 years later and still growing. It's JMO but I don't think you have anywhere near enough light for this anemone...
I have also had a magnifica and a gigantea that were in very bad shape when I got them. I used the above method with the same results, complete recovery.
I believe that most anemones are very underfed, stressed and don't get enough light while they are being collected, moved and held at pet shops. A gaping mouth is the first sign of a problem, most books advise NEVER buy an anemone with a gaping mouth.
I can take pics of my set up and the current carpet in the nursery but I am sorry I didn't get all the steps on film. The next one I get will be documented from start to finish on film.
I used this method to help the most recent "dead" carpet anemone recover. A pet shop gave it to me because it was rolling around on the bottom of the tank with a gaping mouth, no color and no stick to the tentacles. I placed it into an acrylic fish breeder with a slotted bottom and clipped it to the side of the tank with a good area of flow. Put the rim at least 1 1/2 inches below the surface of the water. I got an all plastic, ratcheting clamp from home depot to secure the breeder to the tank. It's very secure and you don't have to worry about suction cups letting go and dumping your anemone into something in the tank. Good water flow is VERY IMPORTANT... ..I bounced the flow from a small Tunze off the glass to direct it into the bottom of the feeder and had another pump bouncing water over the top. I think this surrounding it with flow works best. Nothing is direct enough to cause the anemone to roll around, but it's easy to see the volume of exchange. I fed it 4 or 5 times daily by gently depositing food directly deep into the mouth, being careful not to puncture it with the pipette. Just gently puff the food in, I added a drop of garlic guard to the food to help it's immune system. Some of the food will not stay in it's mouth, but enough must make it because all mine recovered. Since it was clipped to the top of the tank the anemone got plenty of MH light. Now 6 weeks later the anemone is again bright green with pink stripes, it is holding on tightly to the feeder, has super sticky tentacles and grabs the pipette so firmly that it's hard to get it back. I no longer have to feed it directly into it's mouth (which has since returned to normal) as it is able to feed itself again moving food to it's mouth on it's own. I am going to put a piece of holey rock in with it and see if it will move on it's own so that I can safely move it into the tank.
Trial and error has shown this method to work the best...the first anemone I did this with is still alive 3 years later and still growing. It's JMO but I don't think you have anywhere near enough light for this anemone...
I have also had a magnifica and a gigantea that were in very bad shape when I got them. I used the above method with the same results, complete recovery.
I believe that most anemones are very underfed, stressed and don't get enough light while they are being collected, moved and held at pet shops. A gaping mouth is the first sign of a problem, most books advise NEVER buy an anemone with a gaping mouth.
I can take pics of my set up and the current carpet in the nursery but I am sorry I didn't get all the steps on film. The next one I get will be documented from start to finish on film.
sufunk
New member
Thank you for the replies.
I really don't know what to do at this point. Everyone in this thread and everyone local i have talked to have pretty much told me not to try and feed him
I have 150w halides but I guess that isn't enough. Still, wouldn't the anemone move up if he wanted more light? I can see that long term i mave have a problem but my 150w's are so insufficient that it is deflated 21 hours of the day? Wouldn't he be open more trying to get light if not moving higher??
Same with flow, i figured my tunze's were enough but apparently not. I don't understand why he wouldn't just move into higher flow though Just to the left of where he is now, the flow is VERY strong, so strong that i cant really keep sand there and the tank is almost barebottom for about a foot along the glass. For some reason, he hasn't moved there though???
I don't know what to do at this point. I could move him into alot more light and alot more flow but the consensus has been not to move him
Please everyone don't think that i dont value or am discrediting your advice or opinions, i'm really not and i value every suggestion i've gotten. I dont know if my response is coming out that i'm not but i dont mean it to. I'm just INCREDIBLY frustrated at this point!!!!
Seriously, this anemone situation has taken ALL enjoyment out of the tank, i barely even want to look at the tank whenever i see the anemone all shriveled and deflated, which is pretty much all day
I really don't know what to do at this point. Everyone in this thread and everyone local i have talked to have pretty much told me not to try and feed him
I have 150w halides but I guess that isn't enough. Still, wouldn't the anemone move up if he wanted more light? I can see that long term i mave have a problem but my 150w's are so insufficient that it is deflated 21 hours of the day? Wouldn't he be open more trying to get light if not moving higher??
Same with flow, i figured my tunze's were enough but apparently not. I don't understand why he wouldn't just move into higher flow though
Just to the left of where he is now, the flow is VERY strong, so strong that i cant really keep sand there and the tank is almost barebottom for about a foot along the glass. For some reason, he hasn't moved there though???I don't know what to do at this point. I could move him into alot more light and alot more flow but the consensus has been not to move him
Please everyone don't think that i dont value or am discrediting your advice or opinions, i'm really not and i value every suggestion i've gotten. I dont know if my response is coming out that i'm not but i dont mean it to. I'm just INCREDIBLY frustrated at this point!!!!
Seriously, this anemone situation has taken ALL enjoyment out of the tank, i barely even want to look at the tank whenever i see the anemone all shriveled and deflated, which is pretty much all day
timrandlerv10
New member
ladipyg-
first off, I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH YOU. i want to ask some questions about your advice so i can increase my noob status to semi-noob. Sufunk, you may not want to even read my questions!
light--you dont think 450w MH and ~400w of PC is enough light? i'm a bta guy, so i don't know about giganteas.
thanks!
sufunk you can come back now!
tim
food--what were you feeding them?
first off, I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH YOU. i want to ask some questions about your advice so i can increase my noob status to semi-noob. Sufunk, you may not want to even read my questions!
light--you dont think 450w MH and ~400w of PC is enough light? i'm a bta guy, so i don't know about giganteas.
thanks!
sufunk you can come back now!
tim
food--what were you feeding them?
phender
Active member
sufunk,
IME, it is sort of a myth that anemones will move to where it is best for them.
At this point, if you do nothing, I don't think your anemone is going to make it.
Your anemone may be too big for an acrylic breeder, but if you can set up something similar, I think is it worth a shot. How many people giving you advice have actually saved any anemones? I know I have only saved a few anemones and each time I force fed them.
Early on, when it wasn't so bad, I told you to sit and wait. I think that time has passed.
At this point, if you still have the energy and the will, I would try Ladipyg's method. You have nothing to lose.
IME, it is sort of a myth that anemones will move to where it is best for them.
At this point, if you do nothing, I don't think your anemone is going to make it.
Your anemone may be too big for an acrylic breeder, but if you can set up something similar, I think is it worth a shot. How many people giving you advice have actually saved any anemones? I know I have only saved a few anemones and each time I force fed them.
Early on, when it wasn't so bad, I told you to sit and wait. I think that time has passed.
At this point, if you still have the energy and the will, I would try Ladipyg's method. You have nothing to lose.
sufunk
New member
I believe you are correct phender. I think if i dont take some action, it will die. It seems to be staying open a little less each day.
I certainly have the energy and will to try and save this anemone, it will actually be a welcome change to sitting and feeling like i'm doing nothing but watch it decline, which has been pretty depressing!
Tomorrow, i will put my efforts into either moving all my acans and putting it higher up in more flow or building some kind of breeder
There's no problem putting it on the rocks, correct?
I certainly have the energy and will to try and save this anemone, it will actually be a welcome change to sitting and feeling like i'm doing nothing but watch it decline, which has been pretty depressing!
Tomorrow, i will put my efforts into either moving all my acans and putting it higher up in more flow or building some kind of breeder
There's no problem putting it on the rocks, correct?
Ladipyg
New member
Any type of plastic or acrylic basket will work...I have even gone to the dollar store in the past when I needed a bigger basket and just bought a square one that looks a lot like a laundry basket. Trying to move it higher without securing it means it will just let go and tumble around your tank or even worst...end up in a powerhead. And if you've never had that happen you just can't imagine the smell and foam it can produce as the powerhead grinds it up.
I personally like a container with solid sides and an open top and bottom due to flow concerns. Unless you have a super huge carpet the breeder works great because it allows the carpet to keep a cup shaped form as the sides of the tank support the anemone. In my opinion, the ones that I have kept in the manner recovered faster because their "face" was towards the light. Also as you feed it, gravity helps the food stay down. Be gentle but you'll have to put the pipette pretty far into the mouth...just don't go any farther than you can see...judge the depth BEFORE you feed. Thaw the food in distilled fresh water, not salt. Again I believe the fresh water helps flush any bacteria or bugs from the anemones system. Mind you, these are just my theories, but I have had consistent results.
timrandlerv10: I don't know if I missed something but sufunk related he has 150 watts of MH...that's what I feel is not enough. 400 MH and 400 PC is more than enough. Be sure to ask under what conditions the anemone you are getting was kept under.
On another note, I think an anemone WILL MOVE but only if it's strong enough to do so. Once they have a gaping mouth the expenditure of energy is just too much and most anemones will stay put, even if it means their death. The other reason I like to keep the anemone higher in the tank is because I can get a good close look at it while keeping my hands out of the water. This is another one of those things I experimented with: 2 tanks with the same kind and amount of livestock- anemones, fish, zoas, LPS and SPS...these tanks were side by side, timers set the same etc. The only difference in their care was that I stuck my bare hand and arm into one tank at least 5 times a day...the other tank never had my bare hand in it...only gloved and only if absolutely necessary. The difference in the tanks was clearly visible after 3 months...especially in the zoas. After 6 months I quit putting my hand in either tank the the stunted tank caught up in growth in about 8 months.
Read back over all these experiments I do I have come to the conclusion...I GOTTA GET A LIFE!!! ;0)
I personally like a container with solid sides and an open top and bottom due to flow concerns. Unless you have a super huge carpet the breeder works great because it allows the carpet to keep a cup shaped form as the sides of the tank support the anemone. In my opinion, the ones that I have kept in the manner recovered faster because their "face" was towards the light. Also as you feed it, gravity helps the food stay down. Be gentle but you'll have to put the pipette pretty far into the mouth...just don't go any farther than you can see...judge the depth BEFORE you feed. Thaw the food in distilled fresh water, not salt. Again I believe the fresh water helps flush any bacteria or bugs from the anemones system. Mind you, these are just my theories, but I have had consistent results.
timrandlerv10: I don't know if I missed something but sufunk related he has 150 watts of MH...that's what I feel is not enough. 400 MH and 400 PC is more than enough. Be sure to ask under what conditions the anemone you are getting was kept under.
On another note, I think an anemone WILL MOVE but only if it's strong enough to do so. Once they have a gaping mouth the expenditure of energy is just too much and most anemones will stay put, even if it means their death. The other reason I like to keep the anemone higher in the tank is because I can get a good close look at it while keeping my hands out of the water. This is another one of those things I experimented with: 2 tanks with the same kind and amount of livestock- anemones, fish, zoas, LPS and SPS...these tanks were side by side, timers set the same etc. The only difference in their care was that I stuck my bare hand and arm into one tank at least 5 times a day...the other tank never had my bare hand in it...only gloved and only if absolutely necessary. The difference in the tanks was clearly visible after 3 months...especially in the zoas. After 6 months I quit putting my hand in either tank the the stunted tank caught up in growth in about 8 months.
Read back over all these experiments I do I have come to the conclusion...I GOTTA GET A LIFE!!! ;0)
OrionN
Moved on
Thanks Ladipyg. I think I will use your method when I finally get a Gigantea, and Magnifica. I am setting up two systems, one for each. I hope to have at least two Gigantea in my system. Hope they will be opposite sex and may produce babies. From what I read, S. gigantea may harbor babies internally and may spit out reasonably developed babies that should be easy to raise. I would love for one of us able to do this.
By this time next year I hope to have two Gigantea in my Gigantea system.
By this time next year I hope to have two Gigantea in my Gigantea system.
phender
Active member
I bought this container at a Target in the housewares dept. It worked well for me when I cut my mertens.
You might be able to find a plastic collander at a 99 cent store or something similar.
If there is a store that sells pond supplies near you, you might be able to get a plant basket like these.
http://www.strictlypetsupplies.com/825.html
You might be able to find a plastic collander at a 99 cent store or something similar.
If there is a store that sells pond supplies near you, you might be able to get a plant basket like these.
http://www.strictlypetsupplies.com/825.html
sufunk
New member
Well, maybe not the best of solutions but the best i could do today. Moved most of my acans and some rocks(found some INSANE hidden bubble algae mounds:eek1: ) and put the carpet where they were.
I put the carpet inside a 3" connector. It doesn't seem like it but it's getting MUCH, much more flow there. It gets hit by each Tunze stream seperately and then gets hit by both with random current when they switch. Even down in there unexposed, it's getting tossed around so bad i'm worried it will get blown out. Its also about 8" higher and directly under the halides.
I don't really like the way i had to rearrange the rocks but oh well.
Hopefully, it will make a difference.
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I put the carpet inside a 3" connector. It doesn't seem like it but it's getting MUCH, much more flow there. It gets hit by each Tunze stream seperately and then gets hit by both with random current when they switch. Even down in there unexposed, it's getting tossed around so bad i'm worried it will get blown out. Its also about 8" higher and directly under the halides.
I don't really like the way i had to rearrange the rocks but oh well.
Hopefully, it will make a difference.
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Ladipyg
New member
Remember, the measure it temporary until the anemone is back to good health. You don't want the anemone getting "Hit" by the flow....you want constant, gentle, all over flow...water flow that bounces off of something so that it's diffused before it reaches the anemone. I believe what an anemone can take in perfect health and what it can take in a weaken state are 2 different things. It's not eating but it's expending energy trying to hold it's own against the current...it's one step forward and two steps back...what lighting is this one being kept under...I find a mix of a 14K and 6500K bulbs gives the most varied light spectrum...I can only speak from the method I use and the results I've had...
sufunk
New member
The flow it's under now is probably a tad too much for it in it's state but there isn't much i can do. I dialed the tunze's back some so it isn't getting slammed but is getting good flow. The connector around it is diffusing the flow and keeping him in place enough that is seems to be ok. Without the connector, it would be getting hit with alot more flow but i will keep it there at least a few days until i know for certain that it is better and eating.
It definitely looks better since i moved it than it did all day so hopefully it likes this spot better than where its been. I don't know what else i can do. There really isn't anywhere else it can go to get more flow and more light without completely rearranging the live rock. I REALLY appreciate all the advice and suggestions and have my fingers crossed he can get better.
My lighting is 3x150w phoenix 14k's and the 4x96w actinics btw. I run actinics from noon-1030pm, halides 2-9pm.
It definitely looks better since i moved it than it did all day so hopefully it likes this spot better than where its been. I don't know what else i can do. There really isn't anywhere else it can go to get more flow and more light without completely rearranging the live rock. I REALLY appreciate all the advice and suggestions and have my fingers crossed he can get better.
My lighting is 3x150w phoenix 14k's and the 4x96w actinics btw. I run actinics from noon-1030pm, halides 2-9pm.
RobinsonFam1
New member
i am having similar problems with a carpet that was given to me with a gaoing mouth. he has been moving around for the past couple days and not getting situated until i changed the flow pattern in my tank. he is getting a gentle varied current and nestled in against some rocks and sand. came home today and he was huge!!! mouth almost closed tight..
i wasnt planning on feeding him until i fed frozen brine to the tank and the carpet instantly caught on and started feeding. i slipped a silverside to him and he took it right away.
i am hoping this was a good sign and not a step backwards though since it takes alot for a sick nem to feed like that.
good luck, thought i would just share my newest problem/experience.
i wasnt planning on feeding him until i fed frozen brine to the tank and the carpet instantly caught on and started feeding. i slipped a silverside to him and he took it right away.
i am hoping this was a good sign and not a step backwards though since it takes alot for a sick nem to feed like that.
good luck, thought i would just share my newest problem/experience.
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