Blue ringed octopus
- Thread starter Chris Witort
- Start date
Pics please?
APHIS / FWS (Fish and Wildlife Service) in the United States requires a permit to *move* injurious wildlife... the fee for said permit is $100. It's highly unlikely that they do not require a permit to possess or import the same. If they sold it for $20 it means they had no permit for it.
Here is the link to the permit:
http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-42.pdf
Blue ring will fall under the Lacey Act.... which bans the importation of injurious wildlife.
Part 16 is titled "Injurious Wildlife"
Full citatioin is Title 50 CFR, Part 16
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...rgn=div5&view=text&node=50:1.0.1.2.10&idno=50
Section 22 specifically deals with Injurious wildlife......
for your amusement here is the law.
§ 16.22 Injurious wildlife permits.
top
The Director may, upon receipt of an application and in accordance with the issuance criteria of this section, issue a permit authorizing the importation into or shipment between the continental United States, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States of injurious wildlife (See subpart B of this part) for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes.
(a) Application requirements. Submit applications for permits to import, transport or acquire injurious wildlife for such purposes to the Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, (Attention: Office of Management Authority), 4401 N. Fairfax Drive, Room 700, Arlington, VA 22203. Submit applications in writing on a Federal Fish and Wildlife License/Permit application (Form 3"“200) and attach all of the following information:
(1) The number of specimens and the common and scientific names (genus and species) of each species of live wildlife proposed to be imported or otherwise acquired, transported and possessed;
(2) The purpose of such importation or other acquisition, transportation and possession;
(3) The address of the premises where such live wildlife will be kept in captivity;
(4) A statement of the applicant's qualifications and previous experience in caring for and handling captive wildlife.
(b) Additional permit conditions. In addition to the general conditions set forth in part 13 of this subchapter B, permits to import or ship injurious wildlife for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes shall be subject to the following conditions:
(1) All live wildlife acquired under permit and all progeny thereof, must be confined in the approved facilities on the premises authorized in the permit.
(2) No live wildlife, acquired under permit, or any eggs or progeny thereof, may be sold, donated, traded, loaned, or transferred to any other person unless such person has a permit issued by the Director under §16.22 authorizing him to acquire and possess such wildlife or the eggs or progeny thereof.
(3) Permittees shall notify the nearest Special Agent-in-Charge (see §10.22 of this chapter) by telephone or other expedient means within 24 hours following the escape of any wildlife imported or transported under authority of a permit issued under this section, or the escape of any progeny of such wildlife, unless otherwise specifically exempted by terms of the permit.
(c) Issuance criteria. The Director shall consider the following in determining whether to issue a permit to import or ship injurious wildlife for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes:
(1) Whether the wildlife is being imported or otherwise acquired for a bona fide scientific, medical, educational, or zoological exhibition purpose;
(2) Whether the facilities for holding the wildlife in captivity have been inspected and approved, and consist of a basic cage or structure of a design and material adequate to prevent escape which is maintained inside a building or other facility of such structure that the wildlife could not escape from the building or other facility after escaping from the cage or structure maintained therein;
(3) Whether the applicant is a responsible person who is aware of the potential dangers to public interests posed by such wildlife, and who by reason of his knowledge, experience, and facilities reasonably can be expected to provide adequate protection for such public interests; and
(4) If such wildlife is to be imported or otherwise acquired for zoological or aquarium exhibition purposes, whether such exhibition or display will be open to the public during regular appropriate hours.
(d) The Office of Management and Budget approved the information collection requirements contained in this part 16 under 44 U.S.C. 3507 and assigned OMB Control Number 1018"“0093. The Service may not conduct or sponsor, and you are not required to respond to, a collection of information unless it displays a currently valid OMB control number. We are collecting this information to provide information necessary to evaluate permit applications. We will use this information to review permit applications and make decisions, according to criteria established in various Federal wildlife conservation statutes and regulations, on the issuance, suspension, revocation, or denial of permits. You must respond to obtain or retain a permit. We estimate the public reporting burden for these reporting requirements to average 2 hours per response, including time for reviewing instructions, gathering and maintaining data, and completing and reviewing the forms. Direct comments regarding the burden estimate or any other aspect of these reporting requirements to the Service Information Collection Control Officer, MS"“222 ARLSQ, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Washington, DC 20240, or the Office of Management and Budget, Paperwork Reduction Project (1018"“0093), Washington, DC 20603.
[39 FR 1169, Jan. 4, 1974, as amended at 47 FR 30786, July 15, 1982; 63 FR 52634, Oct. 1, 1998]
Here is the link to the permit:
http://www.fws.gov/forms/3-200-42.pdf
Blue ring will fall under the Lacey Act.... which bans the importation of injurious wildlife.
Part 16 is titled "Injurious Wildlife"
Full citatioin is Title 50 CFR, Part 16
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...rgn=div5&view=text&node=50:1.0.1.2.10&idno=50
Section 22 specifically deals with Injurious wildlife......
for your amusement here is the law.
§ 16.22 Injurious wildlife permits.
top
The Director may, upon receipt of an application and in accordance with the issuance criteria of this section, issue a permit authorizing the importation into or shipment between the continental United States, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States of injurious wildlife (See subpart B of this part) for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes.
(a) Application requirements. Submit applications for permits to import, transport or acquire injurious wildlife for such purposes to the Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, (Attention: Office of Management Authority), 4401 N. Fairfax Drive, Room 700, Arlington, VA 22203. Submit applications in writing on a Federal Fish and Wildlife License/Permit application (Form 3"“200) and attach all of the following information:
(1) The number of specimens and the common and scientific names (genus and species) of each species of live wildlife proposed to be imported or otherwise acquired, transported and possessed;
(2) The purpose of such importation or other acquisition, transportation and possession;
(3) The address of the premises where such live wildlife will be kept in captivity;
(4) A statement of the applicant's qualifications and previous experience in caring for and handling captive wildlife.
(b) Additional permit conditions. In addition to the general conditions set forth in part 13 of this subchapter B, permits to import or ship injurious wildlife for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes shall be subject to the following conditions:
(1) All live wildlife acquired under permit and all progeny thereof, must be confined in the approved facilities on the premises authorized in the permit.
(2) No live wildlife, acquired under permit, or any eggs or progeny thereof, may be sold, donated, traded, loaned, or transferred to any other person unless such person has a permit issued by the Director under §16.22 authorizing him to acquire and possess such wildlife or the eggs or progeny thereof.
(3) Permittees shall notify the nearest Special Agent-in-Charge (see §10.22 of this chapter) by telephone or other expedient means within 24 hours following the escape of any wildlife imported or transported under authority of a permit issued under this section, or the escape of any progeny of such wildlife, unless otherwise specifically exempted by terms of the permit.
(c) Issuance criteria. The Director shall consider the following in determining whether to issue a permit to import or ship injurious wildlife for zoological, educational, medical, or scientific purposes:
(1) Whether the wildlife is being imported or otherwise acquired for a bona fide scientific, medical, educational, or zoological exhibition purpose;
(2) Whether the facilities for holding the wildlife in captivity have been inspected and approved, and consist of a basic cage or structure of a design and material adequate to prevent escape which is maintained inside a building or other facility of such structure that the wildlife could not escape from the building or other facility after escaping from the cage or structure maintained therein;
(3) Whether the applicant is a responsible person who is aware of the potential dangers to public interests posed by such wildlife, and who by reason of his knowledge, experience, and facilities reasonably can be expected to provide adequate protection for such public interests; and
(4) If such wildlife is to be imported or otherwise acquired for zoological or aquarium exhibition purposes, whether such exhibition or display will be open to the public during regular appropriate hours.
(d) The Office of Management and Budget approved the information collection requirements contained in this part 16 under 44 U.S.C. 3507 and assigned OMB Control Number 1018"“0093. The Service may not conduct or sponsor, and you are not required to respond to, a collection of information unless it displays a currently valid OMB control number. We are collecting this information to provide information necessary to evaluate permit applications. We will use this information to review permit applications and make decisions, according to criteria established in various Federal wildlife conservation statutes and regulations, on the issuance, suspension, revocation, or denial of permits. You must respond to obtain or retain a permit. We estimate the public reporting burden for these reporting requirements to average 2 hours per response, including time for reviewing instructions, gathering and maintaining data, and completing and reviewing the forms. Direct comments regarding the burden estimate or any other aspect of these reporting requirements to the Service Information Collection Control Officer, MS"“222 ARLSQ, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Washington, DC 20240, or the Office of Management and Budget, Paperwork Reduction Project (1018"“0093), Washington, DC 20603.
[39 FR 1169, Jan. 4, 1974, as amended at 47 FR 30786, July 15, 1982; 63 FR 52634, Oct. 1, 1998]
Now, I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last nite..... so your mileage may vary...
But -
My guess is that it is a violation of Federal Law to import, possess, or sell a Blue Ringed Octopus based on the fact that it is a highly venemous animal capable of causing serious injury or death.
Aquaria will falll under zoological.... so
Can you get away with it? Yea.... one stupid LFS did, one wholesaler did, and one idiot got one for $20.
However, all it take is one phone call to the FWS and they will probably fine the LFS, confiscate the specimen, and revoke the wholesalers import/export permit. Frankly, for good reason. My opinion is that selling highly venemous animals is irresponsible. Some things simply belong on the discovery channel, and the blue ringed octopus is one of them. It is definately a look but don't touch animal.
Now, before anyone gets excited enough to do panty orgami...... the OP did not post a photo so this is all conjecture based on an accurate ID by the OP. What's strange to me is that a LFS would only charge $20 to sell something that is highly poisonous and rare. Most LF$ charge more for the strange or poisonous..... just sayin. Most folks in this business know their goodies and it's bit wierd that the LFS, distributor, etc missed this being a rare specimen. There are probably more than a few commercial aquariums and researchers who would have been happy to pay good money for a blue ring. They also would have had the right permits......
very strange indeed.....
But -
My guess is that it is a violation of Federal Law to import, possess, or sell a Blue Ringed Octopus based on the fact that it is a highly venemous animal capable of causing serious injury or death.
Aquaria will falll under zoological.... so
Can you get away with it? Yea.... one stupid LFS did, one wholesaler did, and one idiot got one for $20.
However, all it take is one phone call to the FWS and they will probably fine the LFS, confiscate the specimen, and revoke the wholesalers import/export permit. Frankly, for good reason. My opinion is that selling highly venemous animals is irresponsible. Some things simply belong on the discovery channel, and the blue ringed octopus is one of them. It is definately a look but don't touch animal.
Now, before anyone gets excited enough to do panty orgami...... the OP did not post a photo so this is all conjecture based on an accurate ID by the OP. What's strange to me is that a LFS would only charge $20 to sell something that is highly poisonous and rare. Most LF$ charge more for the strange or poisonous..... just sayin. Most folks in this business know their goodies and it's bit wierd that the LFS, distributor, etc missed this being a rare specimen. There are probably more than a few commercial aquariums and researchers who would have been happy to pay good money for a blue ring. They also would have had the right permits......
very strange indeed.....
There are far less restraints on buying marine animals than land animals. For instance, it is illegal to buy a ferret or sugar glider or poisonous snake in CA, but buying lionfish, stonefish, or jellyfish is perfectly legal, though jellyfish and lionfish can be far more dangerous than a snake.
nateqt
New member
Blue rings are not as rare as you think you are, I commonly see that at the LA wholesalers, at least a few times a month.
If this is the case, then why can you buy one from here: http://www.oceanproaquatics.com/shop/octopus-australlian-blue-ring-hapalochlaena-p-19775.html
It is a CA company in Los Angeles.
Moray keeper
New member
Has anyone here ordered from Oceanproaquatics? I tried doing a search but couldn't find much listed on RC
oblongshrimp
New member
Cool and beautiful but sound dangerous if you don't know what your doing.
I would not order from oceanpro, because the their supposed "bimaculatus" octopus ictually has a chance of not being one. There are many flaws on their site, and while I contacted the owner to report them, there has been no change. Not to mention that he gives discounts to people who advocate him on other sites. I think that he is censoring bad reviews or making up reviews.
Here it is: http://www.oceanproaquatics.com/coupons.html
Here it is: http://www.oceanproaquatics.com/coupons.html
DanK13
New member
I have seen video footage of the blue ringed releasing toxin into water to stun prey for an easy kill. I can ask my former invert zoology professor the name of the video if you wish. Just let me know.
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Gonodactylus
Premium Member
I know the photographer who made the film and who staged the shot in an aquarium. The stomatopod and the blue-ring are from different parts of Australia. It is quite possible that the octopus was damaged in repeated interactions with the stomatopods and may have "leaked" some TTX.
Roy
Roy
DanK13
New member
Well I dont remember the source of the video since it was 12 or so years ago but I do remember that it was shot in the wild off the coast of southern Japan. Weather it was a damaged venom gland or not they didn't say but it did invert a fish from the opposite side of a rock and easily snatch it.
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I've seen that kind of thing before but with piranhas. Awesome Yellow flounder tang btw
From what i have been told maybe someone else has already mentioned this blue ringed octopus is not an endangered species. I read a thread some where ill post if i can find it again. But it was an aussy talking about how the octys cover there water near his house and he has pictures.
King Venom
New member
There is a shop in Australia, that deals in, stones, blue ring, cone shells, angler fish. Rare things not everyone wants he had a close call with a B.Ring when it crawled across his hand while cleaning the tank.
gamecockfan803
New member
Its only illegal depending on were you live I work at a LFS and we can special order stone fish and other venomous saltwater live stock but the selling of these only go to expert keepers and there would be paperwork for fish of this caliber to release the store of any accidents that might happen due to poor owner ship that could happen at the customers home the thing about the is the blue ring like the rest of his cousins are escape experts and will almost always find a way out
