Blue ringed octopus

[nixer]

Probably not. An animal that would eat a blue ringed ocotopus would probably have evolved over time to be able to do so. There are tons of poisonous/venemous animals that are eaten by other animals.

Off the top of my head, snakes eat poisonous dart frogs. And aren't scorpions munched on by certain animals?

only 3 different poison dart frogs that are deadly. that is out of over 200. the rest supposedly just numb you or cause your mouth to burn. also its only the mucous the frog excretes that is poisonous. also the frog does not produce the toxins itself. the toxins come from plants that their foods have eaten. in captivity they loose this

 

[eyeluvcoral]

I had no idea how deadly these are.

 

[cdeboard]

There is a vid on youtube of a mantis destroying one... just an FYI

 

[Thales]

they might be able to climb and "fall" out of there tank and wander a little ways from the tank to die... its not like they are running around your house looking for people to bite....

They can get out and live for a surprisingly long time and can travel for a surprisingly long distance. Of course they aren't looking for people to bite, but other pets do find them, as do kids, as do loved ones who pick them up to put them back in the tank for you.

 

[flying_dutchman]

then take the prison population. whats it at now? 8mil? thats an army and theyve shown how good at how people can restrain themselves.

its just irritating how much mystic/monster-like crap comes up with them. reread some of the thread, people saying how dare you own one etc.

Who cares if someone wants to keep them, its their own business. I'm not crying about anything. I'm just saying your argument doesn't make any sense. Looking at the prison population isn't a very good argument either, the US is the only first world country with a prison population that big, smoking marijuana or selling orchids without proper permits is completely different from killing someone.

 

[Jay76]

This is a little off topic but I here is a video of me being a dumb American in OZ. I didnt know what a blue ring octo was until after I shot this video. We played with it for at least 20 minutes before letting it crawl back into its shell and putting the shell back where it was. I guess it does show that they arent just going to kill you if you come in contact with them though.

Looking back at it I see how dumb we really were so you dont have to tell me.

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[gp2]

interesting thread. I prefer not to keep things I do not think I can keep alive, and, at this point, octopus certainly fall into that category. In my opinion, you can not understand the allure of keeping a venomous animal unless you just automatically get it. I strongly disagree with keeping any deadly venomous animals in a home environment. There is simply way too many things that can go wrong. The almost infinite number of complications that can occur in the average life put way too many "innocents" at risk. Even if you are a complete loner, you still could die suddenly and some unsuspecting person is going to have to clean up your house/apartment.

I have some experience with keeping "hot" snakes. Any venomous animal is going to be very efficient at delivering its venom. You do not get to learn from experience. One simple, small mistake and you get to have a very bad day at best. If you have no experience working with venomous animals or at the least aggressive dangerous marine life then IMO a deadly octopus could present a fairly steep learning curve. I always try and think how it would effect my loved ones when I am considering doing something with some probability of death. However, anyone that decides to keep these in a home environment is fine by me. My only objection would be having to have us as "society" absorb the lifeflight, the ICU stay, etc... if a bite did occur.

 

[Gonodactylus]

You were lucky because this female Hapalochlaena fasciata was brooding eggs in her web and from my experience with is when blue-rings are particularly aggressive.

Roy

 

[Roblox84]

Interesting, what people will do for a dollar no?

I cant see that holding up in a court but anyway. I bet the new owner has no idea how deadly it is.

Pass him this, they might the information one day.



General Information:

With a beak that can penetrate a wet-suit, they are one little cute creature to definitely look at BUT Don't touch.

The bite might be painless, but this octopus injects a neuromuscular paralysing venom. The venom contains some maculotoxin, a poison more violent than any found on land animals. The nerve conduction is blocked and neuromuscular paralysis is followed by death. The victim might be saved if artificial respiration starts before marked cyanosis and hypotension develops. The blue-ringed octopus is the size of a golf ball but its poison is powerful enough to kill an adult human in minutes. There's no known antidote. The only treatment is hours of heart massage and artificial respiration until the poison has worked its way out of your system.

The venom contains tetrodotoxin, which blocks sodium channels and causes motor paralysis and occasionally respiratory failure. Though with fixed dilated pupils, the senses of the patients are often intact. The victims are aware but unable to respond.

Although the painless bite can kill an adult, injuries have only occurred when an octopus has been picked out of its pool and provoked or stepped on.

SYMPTOMS

*

Onset of nausea.
*

Hazy Vision. ( Within seconds you are blind.)
*

Loss of sense of touch, speech and the ability to swallow.
*

Within 3 minutes, paralysis sets in and your body goes into respiratory arrest.

The poison is not injected but is contained in the octopus's saliva, which comes from two glands each as big as its brain. Poison from the one is used on its main prey, crabs, and is relatively harmless to humans. Poison from the other gland serves as defense against predators. The blue-ringed octopus either secretes the poison in the vicinity of its prey, waits until it is immobile and then devours it, or it jumps out and envelops the prey in its 8 tentacles and bites it.


First Aid

First aid for blue-ringed octopus bites

Pressure-immobilization is a recommended first aid. Prolonged artificial respiration may also be required. May require supportive treatment including mechanical ventilation until the effects of the toxin disappear. There is no antivenin available in Australia.
Mouth to mouth resuscitation can keep the victim alive and the poison gradually wears off after 24 hrs, apparently leaving no side effects.

This all sounds like a great high I once had of off some salvia.

 

[serpentman]

The issue as to whether or not keep dangerous animals comes up frequently in the reptile community, partially because of the rampant phobias surrounding snakes and the like.

IME, there are two reasons people keep dangerous animals:

1.) They are compensating for some inequity in their own life and feel the need to show off (same reason some folks drive Hummers, lol).

2.) They have a genuine curiosity as to the behaviors exhibited by a dangerous creature (venomous animals know they're venomous and behave differently).

Often times, folks convince them its number #2 when deep down its #1. The question people have to ask is what level of inherent risk they are willing to tolerate. Not necessarily for themselves, but for loved ones. For example, an escaped octopus might be irresistible to a pet dog or God forbid a young child.

I worked with a few professors and have spend many hours catching and tagging rattlesnakes and even kept a few personal specimens. They are fascinating creatures with a very high level of awareness when compared to many other snakes. However, when my babies were born, the inherent risk was too high and off they went. No cool animal is worth the risk, especially ones that are adept at escape.

 

[serpentman]

Hmm I was wondering because If some animal eats it, It HAS to encounter the poison in some time during eating it. I saw this video too so thats why I was thinking about it. You can see it getting dark blue and its probably attacking too..

Their is a difference between poisonous and venomous. Poison is ingested and designed to be absorbed through the mucous membranes and/or digestive system to cause a reaction. Venom is injected into tissue or bloodstream to cause a systematic reaction.

It is entirely feasible you can drink a venom with no ill effects, provided the particular venom isn't designed to cross a membrane. If so, the digestive system would then quickly break down the proteins rendering it harmless. However, I don't recommend experimenting as this isn't always the case, lol.

Furthermore, the reverse does not usually apply. Poisons tend to be effective whether ingested or injected, which is why poison "dart" frogs were used in making poison darts and arrows.

 

[Verge]

only 3 different poison dart frogs that are deadly. that is out of over 200. the rest supposedly just numb you or cause your mouth to burn. also its only the mucous the frog excretes that is poisonous. also the frog does not produce the toxins itself. the toxins come from plants that their foods have eaten. in captivity they loose this

Right, not toxic in captivity. But how do we know that these aren't similar ?

 

[Gonodactylus]

Because we measured TTX concentrations.

Roy

 

[TheCoralGarage]

Hi Guys,
I'm new to Reef Central, I know this is an old thread but my GF and I just got one a few days ago, yes we know how dangerous they are, we have no kids and the tank is 99% bulletproof (always a chance of escape though). Just thought I'd upload a photo. He seems to be doing well, even ate the first night. I plan to log our time with him and provide information to though who do choose to keep them in their home.

Question to those who have one, how often do you feed your little eight legged buddies?

 

[ashtree68]

What's some more information about your set up? Size, how it's "bullet proof", how you got him, etc.

 

[TheCoralGarage]

Sorry, should have done that in the first place. Please excuse my "newbie-isum".

14 gallon Oceanic BioCube w/ mods (new pump, no bio balls, area is filled with live rock, I still use the stock filter but I also have a set of secondary filters (coarse mesh, fine mesh, charcoal). I do weekly water changes in addition to media changes about every two to three weeks. He has a few hermits and snails as tank mates as well as some polyps and one mushroom (which he seems to avoid for some reason).

I'm also a fine scale model railroader so I made fitted "shield" for most of the back portion of the tank. This covered the filter/LR/pump area, it is made of white styrene plastic and have a little handle to lift it out when needed for maintenance. I also blocked the two wire holes in the back of the tank lid with rubber grommet and if all else fails, some black duct tape (secondary measure).

The only way I can see escape is from the front door if he can get it open, I still need to think of a way to secure it without talking way from the look of the tank, so for now I just put a metal machinist block on top (2lbs!)

We got him from my LFS in West LA. It was not one of those "Oh cool, buy it" type things, we don't do that. We saw him, came home, did days of research and came back to get him.

We've only gotten him to eat fiddler crabs but I've read about a person who got their's to eat frozen silver side bits if feed by tweezers.

I plan to document each day we have him and if he "lives" more than a month I'll make a site with information for those who want to keep one. Not saying that I think they are great pets for all, but I "feel" that we can give him the care he needs to at least live a "good" life while in our care and if the information I log can benefit other Blue Rings, then great! At least we got him and not some person who has no idea about the danger these little guys pose.

Heck, people race motorcycles, sky dive, and crawl into volcanoes. These could all kill you, but if informed, and the risk is acceptable, then why not.

Peter M.
West LA

 

[TheCoralGarage]

Here are two more shots of him now he has settled in.

 

[Alex T.]

Please tell me you're not feeding him silversides with tweezers and hands in the tank!!!

 

[TheCoralGarage]

Hi Alex,
Thank you for the question. No I never said that I did, and please don't assume that I do not take their venom seriously. As stated, I did my research, THEY CAN/COULD/WILL KILL!

But seriously they are no worse than handing an Oregon Newt, then not washing your hands and then touching your eye, bottom line, they can BOTH KILL YOU!. (I've had an Oregon Newt for years up until I moved from Oregon). I respect the toxicity of these and all creatures. I still choose to keep them! Better me who understand rather than others who don't.

As I stated, I've read about feeding silver sides with tweezers and wondered if anyone who chooses to keep a blue ring had any success doing so. Keep in mind, tweezers can come in different lengths, even two to three feet! Which I might use :eek1:

Again, thank you for the question and your concern, we "reefers" are a community and look out for each other, but I hope that we (Emily & I) make it clear that we have educated ourselves in keeping these little guys, at least with the factual information we were able to find. And if its my time or Emily's time, we accept the risk. I can't think of a more beautiful creature to take my life (other than Emily, and she might kill me one day!).

 

[Maivortex]

Sorry, should have done that in the first place. Please excuse my "newbie-isum".

14 gallon Oceanic BioCube w/ mods (new pump, no bio balls, area is filled with live rock, I still use the stock filter but I also have a set of secondary filters (coarse mesh, fine mesh, charcoal). I do weekly water changes in addition to media changes about every two to three weeks. He has a few hermits and snails as tank mates as well as some polyps and one mushroom (which he seems to avoid for some reason).

I'm also a fine scale model railroader so I made fitted "shield" for most of the back portion of the tank. This covered the filter/LR/pump area, it is made of white styrene plastic and have a little handle to lift it out when needed for maintenance. I also blocked the two wire holes in the back of the tank lid with rubber grommet and if all else fails, some black duct tape (secondary measure).

The only way I can see escape is from the front door if he can get it open, I still need to think of a way to secure it without talking way from the look of the tank, so for now I just put a metal machinist block on top (2lbs!)

We got him from my LFS in West LA. It was not one of those "Oh cool, buy it" type things, we don't do that. We saw him, came home, did days of research and came back to get him.

We've only gotten him to eat fiddler crabs but I've read about a person who got their's to eat frozen silver side bits if feed by tweezers.

I plan to document each day we have him and if he "lives" more than a month I'll make a site with information for those who want to keep one. Not saying that I think they are great pets for all, but I "feel" that we can give him the care he needs to at least live a "good" life while in our care and if the information I log can benefit other Blue Rings, then great! At least we got him and not some person who has no idea about the danger these little guys pose.

Heck, people race motorcycles, sky dive, and crawl into volcanoes. These could all kill you, but if informed, and the risk is acceptable, then why not.

Peter M.
West LA

14 gallon nano is too small. Atleast a 55 gallon for an octopus. Do you have a skimmer? Hermit crabs should be dead sooon. What did your research tell u this is all ok?