Blueface needs help. HELP!

[eskymick]

I have a very distressed Blueface angel. I'm not sure what to do.

Symptoms ...
Deep, rapid gilling
Shuddering
Flashing
Hyperactive swimming (as if startled)

I just tested the water:

SG 1.024
Alk Normal
Ph 8.1
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

The water is intermittently cloudy .. and I don't know why. I feed sparingly.

The other fish (one butterfly and one anthias) are apparently unaffected by whatever is stressing the Blueface.

I've examined the Blueface very closely .. there is no outward indication of ick or even Oodinium/velvet. Eyes and body are clear of any spots or velvety coatings.

I have a quarantine tank, but I have a new, healthy fish in it.

Any educated guesses out there? How should I proceed?

 

[steve-s]

Sounds like either stress or toxic water.

What time of day was the pH tested?
What temp is the tank kept at?
How often are you doing water changes/what volume?
Do you use carbon?
What tank mates/tank size?
Did this or any other tank mate go through the typical QT time?

Cheers
Steve

 

[eskymick]

Ok ...

Temp is 78F
Ph was taken in the morning and in the afternoon ... same.

The tank ....
I had a 75 gallon tank with the butterfly and the anthias. I purchased the 125 two weeks ago from another aquarist. The blueface came with it. All three fish have been around for more than several months.

I combined the water and live rock from both tanks ... and added 50 gallons of new water (two weeks ago).

I only use a small amount of carbon ... at the outflow of the fuge.

 

[steve-s]

Stress would be at the top of my list so far. Nothing clearly to point at/to. I would be proactive and ensure the water itself is not part of the issue. I would suggest a few large (20-25%) water changes over the next week or so. The cloudy water could be bacterial or simpley sediment from combining the tanks but best to be sure. Believe it or not water changes have an amazing effect of "mystery" behavior. Be sure you change the carbon at each water change and ensure it's changed on a regular basis. If there are no light dependant organisms, the reducing the photo intensity if possible for the next while as well.

How are you measuring the pH? The level in the AM and midday should not be the same.
How are the Bfly and Angel getting along?

Cheers
Steve

 

[eskymick]

Thanks for your input steve ....

I use Salifert test kits. So it's not truly accurate to say that the Ph is exactly the same morning and afternoon, but it's close (there is a large color gradient difference on the test indicator card).

The water had been very clear .. all of a sudden this week it has become intermittently cloudy.

I took the Blueface out and put him in a new quarantine tub made with water drawn from my 35hex. Even after all the stress and trauma of being caught and reacclimated, he seems much more "relaxed" already.

I'll keep changing out the carbon and do several water changes in the 125 over this weekend.

My first hunch is that I'm experiencing some sort of mini-cycle, but I can't detect any ammonia or nitrite with my Salifert kits.

As for the butterfly and the angel .. they get along great. They even share the same "cave" in the rockwork.

 

[steve-s]

If the angel is showing improvement just by the move alone, I would definately attribute it to stress or water properties. 'm assuming the two fish you had before all this are not showing any adverse behavior?

Did you happen to note anything about this tank (125 gal) while it was with the previous owner? Water clarity, algae, general cleanliness, salt brand etc?

I know what you mean about the pH test. I am slightly color blind so it makes it a real PITA. As for the ammonia kit, Salifert tests for total ammonia so no reading is very good. Keep testing the nitrite as well. How's the nitrate?

The cloudiness does sound like a bacterial issue. Water changes and regular carbon use will help with that. Is this an FOWLR or reef? Did you ask the previous owner about "in tank" medication use? Do you have a copper test kit?

Cheers
Steve

 

[eskymick]

The previous owner never used any copper or medications in the tank. They had the Blueface for 3 years, and he's fat and healthy in every way. They used IO salt (so do I). The tank is FOWLR.

I'll keep testing and do some water changes (with carbon). Maybe I should use more than just a handful of carbon ... perhaps put some in a cannister?

I do have an Aquaripre Denitrator and a macro algae fuge (chaeto), so my Nitrates are remaining at zero.

 

[steve-s]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7829433#post7829433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eskymick
Maybe I should use more than just a handful of carbon ... perhaps put some in a cannister?

Quantity is not so much important as quality and the frequency it's changed. A small handful is plenty as long as it's changed preferabley weekly, two at the very most. Carbon will not last much longer than that.

Placement is also very important. Simpley placing a bag in the water will do nothing. Passive placement will only allow water to flow around it, not pass through it. Your's should be fine as long as the outport of your refugiums water is actually passing through the carbon. If you have a sump, you can also use a plastic berry basket hung under the skimmers output. Otherwise a power HOB filter or canister would be the next best thing.

Cheers
Steve

 

[eskymick]

I do have an Eheim cannister. I placed two filter bags of Diamond carbon as the top layer in the cannister. The water already looks and smells a lot better.

I will be doing a 25 gallon water change this evening.

Your input has been a great help.

Now ... for how long should I keep the Blueface in the tub?

 

[steve-s]

I would wait until mid next week if you can. You don't want to be moving the angel back too quickly only to move it yet again. Test everything you haave a test kit for and have the LFS do the ones you might not have. Be sure you're satisfied with how the tank looks and "seems". Not exactly scientific or something you can test but I thing you get my meaning. After the water/carbon changes, things should be better.

By Sunday/Monday, start doing smaller water changes on the tub using water from 125 and see how the angel reacts. As long as the fish remains fine, keep doing that daily. Once the angel is placed back, you will be able to eliminate water problems as a cause if the angel acts up again.

Cheers
Steve

 

[eskymick]

Great ideas, steve ...

thanks for all your help.