breeding for a profit?

[joshyross70]

Im fairly new to reefing. Been doing it for a year now and eventually once im more experienced i would like to give breeding clownfish a shot. Now i dont mean to ofend anyone or our hobby since i know alot of people breed fish for the love of just doing it. So my question is, is there a real profit to breeding and selling clownfish? Do u guys keep track of ur expenses as if it were ur own small business? Im assuming it also depends on what kind of clownfish you breed? Thanks

 

[snorvich]

A real profit would mean covering your overhead costs as well as opportunity costs; this is very unlikely for an individual.

 

[GregDoug]

If you use your basement for free
Do not count your labor - so labor is free
If you purchase all used equipment and make your own pairs
And get large enough to have a 'fish room', maybe 16 pairs or so plus growout
and put 2-3 years into this venture with no income
Then MAYBE you will be lucky enough to break even the following 2-3 years.

Not to sound mean but many people have tried to be hobbyist breeders, most of them (I would say 95%) never make a penny. The problem is you need distribution channel and to do that you need volume.

If you want to make a profit to cover your hobby costs (like people do fragging corals), find a nice pair someone in your local club has, raise those babies in a couple 10 gallon tanks, maybe a tub or two for growout, and sell to every store in a 50 mile radius of you, you should break even in a year or less and make $100 a month (mostly store credit) on average if lucky... not bad to buy those new frags, food, pumps, ext.

 

[snorvich]

If you use your basement for free
Do not count your labor - so labor is free
If you purchase all used equipment and make your own pairs
And get large enough to have a 'fish room', maybe 16 pairs or so plus growout
and put 2-3 years into this venture with no income
Then MAYBE you will be lucky enough to break even the following 2-3 years.

Not to sound mean but many people have tried to be hobbyist breeders, most of them (I would say 95%) never make a penny. The problem is you need distribution channel and to do that you need volume.

If you want to make a profit to cover your hobby costs (like people do fragging corals), find a nice pair someone in your local club has, raise those babies in a couple 10 gallon tanks, maybe a tub or two for growout, and sell to every store in a 50 mile radius of you, you should break even in a year or less and make $100 a month (mostly store credit) on average if lucky... not bad to buy those new frags, food, pumps, ext.

I agree. It may cover your expenses to a greater or lesser degree and certainly is fun and intellectually stimulating. However, technically, if your labor is not being compensated for, if the opportunity cost of your basement is not covered, then you are not really making a profit. "Doing it" is not the problem, selling and distribution is the issue.

 

[president89]

From what I've read, you need to breed multiple species of fish. Stores might not run out of Ocellaris when you want to sell, but maybe they need a different strain. I've also read to stay away from aggressive clowns. Other breeders have told me it's tough to sell tomato clowns, clarkii, and maroons.

 

[woodnaquanut]

What's the phrase?

Oh yea.

"How do you make a small fortune breeding fish? Start with a large fortune."

It can be fun watching the process of reproduction, birth and growth, just like keeping fish is fun. Trying to make money off of it is work.

 

[snorvich]

Ah, there is actually one additional problem. Brick and mortar LFS which do not have a substantial maintenance business are not long for this world. As such, your market, even in very large metropolitan areas, is contracting. But I agree with John above in any case.

 

[GreshamH]

Ah, there is actually one additional problem. Brick and mortar LFS which do not have a substantial maintenance business are not long for this world. As such, your market, even in very large metropolitan areas, is contracting. But I agree with John above in any case.

Agree and disagree on that one. For most stores, its true... but in my travels and talks with stores all over the US (I do this for a living and have for many years), I can point to scores that really don't need a service department.

 

[Paul B]

I don't think it could be profitable in any way. I have raised plenty of fish and the time and money for food far outweighs any thoughts of profits. Freshwater fish are bred in ponds in warm climates using the heat and light from the sun. Fish fry have a very high mortality rate and it is just not worth it for an individual. A business that has lots of room may be able to make a profit but even then, the technology is just not there yet. If it were, we would have all sorts of captive bred fish available which we don't. The only possible exception would be bangai cardinals as their young are fairly large and are born alive eating large, readily available food. Here is one of my just born clown gobies. I took this through a microscope because I could hardly see the thing. You want to try to raise this?

 

[D-Nak]

One other variable to point out is location. If you're in a location where there are other local breeders, the market gets quickly saturated. One batch of eggs can develop into hundreds of babies, and this happens every couple of weeks. You can see how the numbers quickly add up when you add multiple pairs with multiple breeders.

And keep in mind that you're also competing with huge breeding ops that can offer their fish to LFS for pennies. Most LFS carry a few of the common clowns, and typically only a pair or two of each "designer" clown.

As previously mentioned, the more aggressive clowns are even harder to sell. Even those considered somewhat rare such as a McCulloch's clown are a tough sell too -- many people don't find them very attractive.

If you want to breed clowns, and even hope to profit some, my suggestion is to find a niche that works for you. For example, if you can get your hands on a Bali Aquarich Nebula Picasso, you can get creative with your pairing and resulting offspring.

Regardless, your goal should always be to produce the best clowns possible -- extremely high quality (color, form, shape, etc.) with no defects or flaws. This means feeding high quality food (Gresham can give you suggestions, wink-wink) and clean water. Did I mention clean water? ;-) Soon you'll develop a reputation for producing top-notch clowns and quickly build your own brand (a la Rods Onyx or Bali Aquarich P1 Picasso).

 

[ichthyogeek]

Umm....what about selling online? Aquabid, Ebay, those sorts of sites. By mailing top quality fish out to people who have little to no access to a good LFS or Petco or something, wouldn't it be easier to get a profit? Or possibly working with other breeders to make a company of sorts, each breeder responsible for one species/genus? Sorry if I'm being naive here.

 

[kizanne]

I too had an interest in this but I'm even more naive as I want to do mandarins. ORA aquaculture sells for $35 - $59 dollars and they don't seem to be doing the blues or reds right now. Does this mean you could whole sale for say $10 to $15? What would you have to do to wholesale to larger operations that then would distribute them? Of course I'm a long way from that but it is interesting to try and figure it out. Obviously some people make money at this.

 

[GreshamH]

I don't think it could be profitable in any way. I have raised plenty of fish and the time and money for food far outweighs any thoughts of profits. Freshwater fish are bred in ponds in warm climates using the heat and light from the sun. Fish fry have a very high mortality rate and it is just not worth it for an individual. A business that has lots of room may be able to make a profit but even then, the technology is just not there yet. If it were, we would have all sorts of captive bred fish available which we don't. The only possible exception would be bangai cardinals as their young are fairly large and are born alive eating large, readily available food. Here is one of my just born clown gobies. I took this through a microscope because I could hardly see the thing. You want to try to raise this?

I sell to breeders, its mainly what we do... I know of around 4 dozen individuals that are making money on breeding clowns alone, and that's not counting actual companies. It can be done, but how you approach it really matters, as does location.

But 4 dozen out of how many attempting it, not a great % to jump on. Its a true job, don't think of it as any less.

 

[stifrk]

One other variable to point out is location. If you're in a location where there are other local breeders, the market gets quickly saturated. One batch of eggs can develop into hundreds of babies, and this happens every couple of weeks. You can see how the numbers quickly add up when you add multiple pairs with multiple breeders.

And keep in mind that you're also competing with huge breeding ops that can offer their fish to LFS for pennies. Most LFS carry a few of the common clowns, and typically only a pair or two of each "designer" clown.

As previously mentioned, the more aggressive clowns are even harder to sell. Even those considered somewhat rare such as a McCulloch's clown are a tough sell too -- many people don't find them very attractive.

If you want to breed clowns, and even hope to profit some, my suggestion is to find a niche that works for you. For example, if you can get your hands on a Bali Aquarich Nebula Picasso, you can get creative with your pairing and resulting offspring.

Regardless, your goal should always be to produce the best clowns possible -- extremely high quality (color, form, shape, etc.) with no defects or flaws. This means feeding high quality food (Gresham can give you suggestions, wink-wink) and clean water. Did I mention clean water? ;-) Soon you'll develop a reputation for producing top-notch clowns and quickly build your own brand (a la Rods Onyx or Bali Aquarich P1 Picasso).

Disagree here somewhat. If you compare the cost of a regular clownfish plus shipping to a local fish store vs buying locally with no shipping cost for less than total cost, it is better for both parties. Regular ocellaris sell here for $30 on average and I sell to LFS for 3 each because it's cheaper than the shipping plus cost of fish from a wholesaler. I'm not expecting to make more than wholesale cost plus shipping, it's about setting expectations. My goal is to sell 1k fish per month at a min sales price of $3 and more for designers.

 

[D-Nak]

Disagree here somewhat. If you compare the cost of a regular clownfish plus shipping to a local fish store vs buying locally with no shipping cost for less than total cost, it is better for both parties. Regular ocellaris sell here for $30 on average and I sell to LFS for 3 each because it's cheaper than the shipping plus cost of fish from a wholesaler. I'm not expecting to make more than wholesale cost plus shipping, it's about setting expectations. My goal is to sell 1k fish per month at a min sales price of $3 and more for designers.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Captive-bred Occis sell here for $10 retail and the market is saturated. If I'm understanding you, I can't imagine you selling 1k fish each month without having to ship anywhere. Besides that, if you have an operation that's cranking out that quantity of fish consistently each month, you are not a small operation and therefore need to consider the overhead of running your business.

 

[GreshamH]

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Captive-bred Occis sell here for $10 retail and the market is saturated. If I'm understanding you, I can't imagine you selling 1k fish each month without having to ship anywhere. Besides that, if you have an operation that's cranking out that quantity of fish consistently each month, you are not a small operation and therefore need to consider the overhead of running your business.

We have a decent market here in the Bay Area. With only 3 local small breeders supplying the stores, a breeder is lucky to see a few hundred a year. And most stores local still buy from ORA, SA, EA, PA, etc

With the current price wars among the big breeders that can take the hit, I really wish him the best in terms of being a start-up.