Brooklynella after formalin dip? Flukes? Velvet? Bacteria?...

ThRoewer

ThRoewer

New member
I may need some additional input on this.

I got 2 starcki damsels from LA on Thursday and they looked pretty much OK then, but Friday morning both appear to be sick:
They clamp and flick fins, swim erratic and do moves that indicate something on their skin, fins or gills is causing them discomfort.
There are some slightly discolored areas on their bodies, like thin white borders around some scales.
Head shaking would indicate some irritation of their gills.
Fins appear mostly clear.
No rusty-golden shine.
No particularly rapid breathing.
So far I have not seen them scratch.
They are still eating and the goby and blenny that are with them in the QT don't show anything yet.

Here a short video of them:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UVkL6jhEqfU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So far I haven't conclusively identified what it may be.

It's for sure not Cryptocaryon (unless it's a lethal wave, after infection but before the nodules show up - rather unlikely).

From the fin clamping I would diagnose it as an early stage Brooklynella infection, but I gave them a formalin bath (formalin MS, 20 drops/gallon, 45 min) when they arrived, so it would be rather strange that it flares up now.

Amyloodinium would be another option, but again, the symptoms don't really fit.

Flukes may fit the flicking, but the deterioration over night was just too quickly.

A bacterial infection may be the most likely cause.

Any other ideas?
 
I would suspect gill flukes first, not only symptoms, but the locals have been complaining about flukes from LA lately. Perhaps the white boundaries are secondary.

FW dip and see what you find?
Microscope?

Good luck.
 
I've had starcki develop uronema so that's what I would suspect. Especially with raised white scale.

I would feed new life spectrum hex shield and ich shield. One has chloroquine and the other has metro. Both are reputed effective against uronema. In the internal stage, you should be feeding medicated food.

I would personally also separate them (at least for now) to prevent scraping of each other and further stress.

Which collection point are these?

I would also add kanamycin for good measures.
 
could also be internal worms. I personally have fenbendazole and plan to use it on my next starcki order.
 
I'm leaning toward bacterial. I have a McCosker's wrasse in QT right now, and he showed some whitish patches like that, coupled with some fin rot. A week of kanamycin cleared it up, and fins are starting to grow back.
 
Well, it turned out to be a really bad Cryptocaryon infection after all:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wm_TxnkQNkk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He confuses the goby with a cleaner fish due to the stripes :debi:

Gonna transfer them all to a new tank once the parasites dropped off and start them on full hyposalinity.
 
tylersarah said:
How did you conclude crypto?

Good video. He's like HEY, don't you see me backing up, this isn't self service.
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this as well. I don't see any flashing or obvious signs of crypto, but videos don't always show the subtle details. The damsel's behavior toward the goby could be a territorial display. My blue chromis does that whenever an interloper gets near his cave. He backs toward them twitching his caudal fin.
 
He developed the well defined white dots all over his fins and body. In the original video, as crappy as it is, you can see then, but the YouTube compression may have made it hard to see.
Not all fish flash like crazy. He scratches himself, but it's very controlled and targeted.
He may have something else as he looks puffy and most of his body scales are slightly raised.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
As for the cleaning station behavior - I've seen the same when my other starcki wanted to get cleaned by a cleaner shrimp.
Territorial behavior looks different.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
Well, both died. The female a few days ago and the male today. He had an internal bacterial infection on top of the Cryptocaryon infection. By the time the Cryptocaryon had dropped off he looked like a pinecone: all bloated and scales raised - an indication of renal failure.
 
It looked precisely like Cryptocaryon - for sure not like Amyloodinium. The fish did not show any of the typical Amyloodinium symptoms, especially no heavy breathing.

They must have gotten infected the day they were shipped out - the behavioral symptoms showed up the day after I got them. The spots showed 5 days after they got shipped and came off 7 days shipping. It would be on the extreme maximum as reported by Colorni, but still within the possible range for Cryptocaryon.

I also considered the possibility that they got infected after I got them, but the goby and blenny that I got with the same shipment and put into the same tank do not show anything so far. I would expect at least one of those to show some symptoms if the infection occurred in my QT.

Anther option could be that this is a strain that has so far not been observed in studies.

Also, the internal bacterial infection the male had could have interfered with the Cryptocaryon.
 
Which collection point are these from.

I would like to know so I can avoid purchasing from that collection point.


I was wondering if I was the only one having trouble keeping starckis but that doesn't appear to be the case now.
 
Well, I sterilized the tank and equipment with bleach and boiled the gravel and ceramic shards - I hope that will kill whatever it was.

The surviving goby and blenny are right now in a Lee's Specimen Container for TTM (daily transfers!)
 
tylersarah said:
I would suspect gill flukes first, not only symptoms, but the locals have been complaining about flukes from LA lately. Perhaps the white boundaries are secondary.

FW dip and see what you find?
Microscope?

Good luck.
Click to expand...

I suspect you may have been right with flukes. I just lost 4 of my 5 ventralis anthias and an examination of the survivor revealed a serious infection with skin flukes. The general appearance matched to some degree what I observed with the starcki.

I should have broken out the microscope sooner :headwallblue:

BTW: the blenny died as well, but the goby is doing fine without any further action. I found these guys to be quite hardy and resistant against many diseases.
 
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