Brutal evaluations sought!

[JHemdal]

Jacob,

Don't get me wrong, it isn't so much that the publishers slowing down in the use of MY photographs, it is that they are changing to using STOCK photo services(grin). Remember, when somebody reads my material, the photos help tell the story. If the publisher uses 75 cent photos that they got in bulk, it just doesn't help my effort.

This issue is also by no means across the board, FAMA used all six of a set of images I sent them in a recent article, while Practical Fishkeeping used none. Guess who gets my next article? (grin)

I didn't post the link(s) to the contest winners because the way they set it up was kind of hinky, and I didn't think people were really interested, but here you go:

http://www.aza.org/uploadedFiles/Me...09/12_December/Photo Contest Highlights 1.pdf

http://www.aza.org/uploadedFiles/Me...09/12_December/Photo Contest Highlights 2.pdf

http://www.aza.org/uploadedFiles/Me...09/12_December/Photo Contest Highlights 3.pdf

Obviously, there are some really nice images in these sets, but there are also some that look like snapshots (see the polar bear in the third link).
My point to all this is just to try and learn and improve. I see that I need to be more self-critical, learn my camera's operation better, but I'm afraid that artistry will always elude me....
I have a copy of Bryan Peterson's "Understanding Close-up Photography". i understood little from reading it. He would show an image of some rusted paint on a light pole, or a close up of a bird's feather, and go on and on about how wonderful his shot was. I could make virtually the same image, but it would be cr*p - because I seemingly lack the artistry!


Jay

 

[boodlefish]

Jay, maybe "artsy" is the wrong word to use, of the links you posted i would only really consider the sea turtle photo to be "artsy" and that is largely because it is obviously photo-shopped. i am guessing that they applied a "palette knife" filter to the background. (nothing wrong with that) especial since i think it looks good and fits the mood/ feeling of the photo and subject.

i am not sure that i understand why "snapshot" is a bad word, many famous photographers including good old Ansel Adams, atribute a good portion of their success to being in the right place at the right time.

"Sometimes I do get to places just when God's ready to have somebody click the shutter." ~ Ansel Adams

I honestly think that your photo would have been a contender if maybe you caught a clown or goby poking their head out through the Xenia. JMHO

 

[TitusvileSurfer]

What about the polar bear has the essence of a "snap shot"? Granted it ranked 22nd in the contest and I don't think we've even seen the top 10. Is it because the bear isn't very sharp? I think the cropping is dead-on.
I would consider the chimp behind the leaves to be "artsy". Excellent use of flash.

 

[JHemdal]

Titusville,

Well, you're joking, right? If not, remember that these are zoo employees taking these shots - so picking a day when the water quality is optimum shouldn't have been a problem, the general water cloudiness removes too much sharpness. The blown highlights in the upper right, directly next to a dark area is distracting. The fake rock just sort of "floating in" from the left is also an issue. Finally, I cannot get over the idea that looks like the big polar bear has a little miniature one biting its nape!
I would have stepped in a bit closer, losing the blown area and the floating rock, and reduced the cloudiness by quite a bit. I would have reduced the DOF to get rid of "junior" in the background, upped the saturation a bit, and then waited until the polar bear blew out a nice stream of bubbles (rather than the dribbly ones in this shot). But then again, if I had done that, I would have lost the contest!


Jay

 

[Financial Panth]

Hey Jay,
It's not too bad of a photo, but on the technical side I also agree w/ others that it fell short on sharpness and being out-of-focus. The image is also a bit noisy and the stalks have strong CA. As far as composition, my #1 personal rule is your image HAS to tell a story. When you take a photo, ask yourself.. what is this photo about? What is it trying to tell? That image tells me that there are Xenias and the owner simply took photos of them (not trying to be funny). It lacks punch. It lacks detail. It draws your eyes' attention to so many things in the frame... the strong blue background, the multiple stalks of Xenia..among many others. Lastly, the perspective is unnatural but not unique. When you look at your tank, do you see the exact rendition?

I hope I'm making sense.. it's kinda hard to explain. I'll use this as an example.. I took a quick snapshot.. but tell me, what is the subject of this picture and what is it telling you?

Right away you know that the fish is the subject.. the fish is in focus, and the setting is "at the crowded reef". A shallow DOF is used to isolate the subject and separate it from the background, which helps direct the eye away from the distraction. I also slightly vignetted the background to further emphasize the subject. (learned this from beerguy in one of his Yosemite shots) Another technique I use is I slightly de-saturate the background, leaving just the subject to be saturated. Anything to direct the viewer's eye to the subject and away from distraction helps!

Sorry for the lengthy pseudo workshop, but that's my take. Hope it helped

Great picture. Striking is the best way to describe it.

 

[trashman]

Well i think it is a nice picture but i am new to this all so what do i know.

 

[kilroy217]

JHemdal - It sounds like you are holding a grudge against the judges of the contest. One thing I've learned is that judgement of something so subjective as photography never goes the way people think it will. We all see contest winners where we think "I COULD have done that"... but the reality of it is we DIDN'T do it, and we didn't win. My best recommendation to you is to not take these contests so seriously. If you win - great, and if you don't - oh well, at least you tried. Photography is supposed to be our hobby - meaning, it's supposed to be fun. Just go out there and enjoy it.

 

[JHemdal]

kilroy,

No, no grudge at all, I don't even know who they are. The issue is/was just me trying to figure out what they are looking for, and why I seemingly couldn't meet those requirements. I *knew* that this image was not going to win, place or show, but with 25 places, I was figuring on seeing it show up somewhere.
This isn't a hobby for me - I need to produce the best images possible in order to support articles and books that I write....but I do appreciate the sentiment of "take a chill pill"! Well, there is always next year.

Jay

 

[boodlefish]

Titusville,
Well, you're joking, right? If not, remember that these are zoo employees taking these shots - so picking a day when the water quality is optimum shouldn't have been a problem, the general water cloudiness removes too much sharpness. The blown highlights in the upper right, directly next to a dark area is distracting. The fake rock just sort of "floating in" from the left is also an issue. Finally, I cannot get over the idea that looks like the big polar bear has a little miniature one biting its nape!
I would have stepped in a bit closer, losing the blown area and the floating rock, and reduced the cloudiness by quite a bit. I would have reduced the DOF to get rid of "junior" in the background, upped the saturation a bit, and then waited until the polar bear blew out a nice stream of bubbles (rather than the dribbly ones in this shot). But then again, if I had done that, I would have lost the contest!
Jay

dude, but if you did all of that and still lost the contest you still would have one heck of a shot to hang up. it is starting to sound like you have a slight case of the, "should've, would've, could'ves"

i think you can make this a learning experience, look at the "winners" except the polar bear, and think about what makes each photo special, and think about how you may be able to implement something similar into your own work. if you cant beat em join em.

 

[xtm]

Well, your picture is telling me that you have an anthias that most likely has a sub-acute infection of Mycobacterium marinum (a bit skinny with slight exopthalmia and roughed-up scales). It will probably live for some time, but upon necropsy, it will likely have nodules in its liver which if cultured would turn out to be slow-growing acid fast bacteria. See - every picture does tell a story!

Jay,
Sorry for the OT but are you serious? I don't know much about fish disease but I've had this Lyretail for about 4 years now and he's actually looked like this ever since I bought him. 4 years for keeping an Anthia I think is pretty good considering this guy is is a picky eater. But thanks for noticing! I didn't think this was offensive at all, I am actually thankful that you noticed it.

FWIW~ what I see in xtm's photo is a far cry from what you described. I see a brave little soul facing something bigger then themselves, someone (figuratively speaking, we are being "artsy") who is venturing back into an arena where they have faced trouble before. I see a little trepidation and a lot of courage..

man, that's deep..

I honestly think that your photo would have been a contender if maybe you caught a clown or goby poking their head out through the Xenia. JMHO

I agree, this sounds like a good scene.

Great picture. Striking is the best way to describe it.

Thanks

secondly i dont think xtm's intention had anything to do with "i just took a quick snapshot and its better then a shot you slaved over"

Thanks, you are correct. I didn't mean to imply that my "snapshot" was better. I said "snapshot" only because well, it IS a snapshot (to me). I took the camera, aimed, and pressed the shutter, nothing special. Didn't use the tripod. No flash. No gels, no diffusers, nothing. It was a handheld shot.

One thing I've learned is that judgement of something so subjective as photography never goes the way people think it will. We all see contest winners where we think "I COULD have done that"... but the reality of it is we DIDN'T do it, and we didn't win. My best recommendation to you is to not take these contests so seriously. If you win - great, and if you don't - oh well, at least you tried. Photography is supposed to be our hobby - meaning, it's supposed to be fun. Just go out there and enjoy it.

Great advice!


Jay,

ART in any form is very subjective - especially photography where there are literally millions of way to capture the moment. Some people prefer shallow DOF, some prefer tight compositions, some prefer HDR, some prefer B&W, some prefer capturing with Velvia 50, some prefer..... you get the point. However, beerguy is right in that while art is subjective, there is a "guideline" that every photographer should follow. Things like basics of exposure, basics of composition, and many more. Don't feel bad - we all started somewhere. I suggest you read the book "Understanding Exposure" by Peterson. It's a great, great book.

 

[BlueCorn]

Jay,

What I find most frustrating about this thread is the fact that you started out asking for a "brutal evaluation" because you want to learn how to improve your photos. When someone makes a suggestion, all you do is argue with them. When you ask for criticism you should be more receptive to hearing it.

Cheers

 

[Jacob D]

FWIW, Jay I think I got your meaning here, at first it sounded a little argumentative but I don't get the feeling that you intended that (personally, I come across that way more often than not).

Anyway, don't be overly frustrated, just keep with it. It helps (me) to study the work of others, both in finding ways I can improve what I do as well as from a critique standpoint. With regard to artistry, you either have it or you don't. I have quite a bit of artistic talent in my family, maybe a little bit myself but I would never consider myself an artist. Photography is an interesting mixture of artistic talent and technical know how. Those who can master both aspects of it are very gifted indeed; if you can develop a good eye for composition and a good discipline for getting the technical details right you'll be miles ahead of most people who buy an SLR and think it's going to be magic.

 

[boodlefish]

Photography is an interesting mixture of artistic talent and technical know how. Those who can master both aspects of it are very gifted indeed; if you can develop a good eye for composition and a good discipline for getting the technical details right you'll be miles ahead of most people who buy an SLR and think it's going to be magic.

very true