brute rubbermaid trash bin

Ever look at sites that make large holding tanks. They will usually have tanks for "potable" water and special tanks for non-potable water like RO/DI water. Look one up and give them a call and argue the point with them that you can use a "potable" container for your RO/DI water. Most will clearly tell you the product can't be used in that environment. Rubbermaid will tell you this about there brute trash cans too. Many of us still use them for DI storage anyway but then have creeping TDS in the container over time. Remember how this all started where I mentioned throwing in a little Ca so the water wasn't ion hungry and would become more potable?

What in the world does that have to do with being SAFE TO DRINK or POTABLE?

Read your package of Kool-Aid. It says "Do not mix or store in a metal container".

Why? Becuase Kool-Aid has citric acid in it and will leach ions out of the container and change the taste. Is Kool-Aid POTABLE?

So we have special tanks for WATER and special tanks for Kool-Aid. Does that mean anything?

Sorry carlo, but your logic is flawed.
 
While you may take the dictionary definition and mangle it to mean "if I didn't get sick drinking it then it's potable" the medical & scientific fields don't see it that way and don't consider the water potable because it's not safe for long term drinking because of several issues.
One of us has mangled the definition, but it is not me. You have twisted yourself into a knot trying to show that DI water is not safe to drink and is NOT POTABLE.

btw, re-read the part about "waste water" in the context of what's written. When you need pure water and the DI water touches air it pulls in the Ions and should be considered waste water as it's no longer fit for use. I knew someone would pull it out of context.
With all due respect Carlo, your entire premise is OUT OF CONTEXT.

Furthermore, you posted the text to support your claims about POTABLE WATER. I put it back in context because you tried to apply it OUT OF CONTEXT.

Carlo

PS I'm done with the "debate" unless you want to bring in some scientific or medical literature that says it's potable or safe for long term drinking. I don't personally agree with your "interpretation" of "potable" (nor does the EPA, medical or scientific communities) so continuing to debate it is useless at this point.
I don't suspect your done. You keep telling people that RO/DI is NOT POTABLE. You cite (well you say that they say things) the EPA and SCIENTIFIC communities but don't even understand the context of what they are saying or the definition of POTABLE. You don't recognize the fact that water standards and POTABLE water are two different things. You don't understand that the "perfect solvent" is no longer a perfect solvent once it passes your gums but your diet replaces anything that the water may take out. You don't understand the fact that drinking ICE TEA strips your body of needed minerals too.

Yes.. .I think we are done here. This has traveled to the absurd and back. Just please stop telling people that DI water is NOT POTABLE. Your just flat out wrong.
 
BeanAnimal, I'm not going to get "sucked" into discussions on things like Coca-Cola, Beer & Kool-Aid. We are talking potable water here not anything else.

You seem to want to twist my words so that it works for you. It doesn't. You have yet to prove your point. I have given several reasons why it's not safe to drink long term and why it's not suitable. In every definition of potable water you can find it would not be considered potable.

Again, please site a medical or scientific journal or other credible source to show it's potable. You keep trying to put me on the defence and I'm not going to do it. The medical fields, scientific fields and EPA have clearly said it's not safe and not potable so I'm not the one saying it. I'm only the messenger. If you want to make a case that it is potable then by all means do so but quote an expert.

I very strongly feel I'm not the one "twisting" the definition of potable water. I'm not the one going against the community at large here, you are. I'm not the one bringing up nonsense stuff like coke and beer that has nothing to do with potable water you are.

Is Pellagrino sparkling water potable?
Bottled water is regulated at the federal and state level. At the federal level, bottled water is regulated as a food and, therefore, comes under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Bottled water is subject to the requirements of the federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, and, if it is sold as a consumer commodity, is subject to the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act. In the code of Federal Regulations, FDA has established standard of identity and standard of quality regulations for bottled water (21 CFR 103.35 and 165.l10), and current good manufacturing practice (CGMP) regulations for processing and bottling of bottled drinking water (21 CFR part 129). Go check out some of the requirements and then come back and correct your post.

I know well water in the area I live in HAS TO BE POTABLE (and actually even better then that) to sell or buy a house in these parts. It's an expensive set of tests and I know I failed it when selling my house back in March. I know all to well about this IN MY AREA. I even had to remove the DI canister under the sink. This I will not debate with you because I lived through the mess and you did not. But the only reason I brought it up is that it probably depends on where you live. But to say well water is or can not be potable is well a lack of understanding on your part.

Honestly, I don't understand your logic on the matter. At this point I'm not even sure you know what potable water is. How can say well water and Pellagrino sparkling water aren't or can't be potable but drinking from a stream is??? Seems backwards to me. How can you talk about beer and soda as being potable?

You say: "You simply DO NOT understand the definition of POTABLE. You are twisting the definition with water standards. You are interpreting the definition into something that it is NOT."

Kind of seems the opposite.

"With all due respect... I think logic left your arguement before it ever started.

You have posted numerous times that RO/DI water is NOT POTABLE and tried to support that claim, going as far as saying it is not safe to drink."

It's not suitable for long term drinking. I never said you couldn't drink it in limited quantities. Please don't put words in my mouth. All I've said is that it's not potable and not safe suitable LONG TERM to drink.

Well I've stuck to it pretty well. Over and over again I've explained why it's not safe or suitable for long term use and why it's not potable.

I think my logic is pretty sound. I'm not jumping all over the place with examples that have nothing to do with potable water. I've stuck to facts, nothing more, nothing less.

You claim in the previous message that I'm the one who doesn't understand what potable water is. Yet you bring up beer and coke to support potable water? Didn't know they were water.

Over and over again I've said the common definition is "Water that is safe and suitable to drink". Wiki has a pretty good definition "Drinking water is water that is intended to be ingested by humans. Water of sufficient quality to serve as drinking water is termed potable water whether it is used as such or not."

Either way it doesn't matter because the medical field has shown it's not safe AND NOT of sufficient quality AND NOT suitable for long term use. LOGIC then says if it's not safe and not suitable and not of sufficient quality it's not potable. Seems pretty simple to me without any "twisting".

"Absurd and back". You must be reading your responses. :)

DI water IS NOT POTABLE. Please stop trying to go against everything that is published on the matter unless you are going to step up and prove it. Find a reference somewhere that shows it's potable. Until such time as it's disputed and proven to be safe and suitable for long term use I'll go with what the experts in multiple fields say about it. "Not suitable for long term drinking".

If anyone in particular want to find out if there tap, RO or RO/DI water is potable (safe/suitable to drink) get it tested by a state/EPA certified drinking water laboratory. You'll get a detailed report showing many things and if anything in the water is not in sufficient quantities or to much in quantity you'll know. You will clearly know if the water is safe and suitable to drink or not.

But again, drink it if you want. I don't personally care. If you want to consider it safe to drink long term that's your prerogative but please don't influence others on the matter when the medical field has said it's not good to drink long term.

However, the containers we commonly use to hold the RO/DI aren't designed or especially suitable to hold DI water because it's ION HUNGRY. It will leach from the air and container until such time as it's not ION HUNGRY. Alternately you can add some minerals like Calcium to the DI water so it's not ION hungry and so it won't leach from the container. <-- The only point I really care about in this thread!

For anyone reading this with an RO/DI unit you can install a simple/cheap bypass between the RO membrane and DI cartridge so you can fill water containers. The water is sufficiently purified for drinking and it still has some minerals in it and it's not ion depleted which is the cause of much of the medical issues. RO water is generally considered a good thing to drink while DI is not.

If you ever look at the combination house/reef RO/DI units you'll see they are designed this way on purpose. Call and ask a vendor why and they'll probably tell you the DI water isn't safe to drink while the RO water is perfect.

Enough said,
Carlo
 
BeanAnimal, I'm not going to get "sucked" into discussions on things like Coca-Cola, Beer & Kool-Aid. We are talking potable water here not anything else.

You just don't get it do you? If RO/DI water does not fit your towns definition of "potable water" it does not mean that it IS NOT POTABLE. Coca-Cola does not fit the towns definition of POTABLE WATER either. It is still potable.

Your blinders are so long that your unable to see the flaws in your own logic.

You keep stating that RO/DI is NOT POTABLE and NOT SAFE TO DRINK. You just dead wrong. PERIOD.
 
You seem to want to twist my words so that it works for you. It doesn't. You have yet to prove your point. I have given several reasons why it's not safe to drink long term and why it's not suitable. In every definition of potable water you can find it would not be considered potable.

I am not twisting your words at all. YOU SAID RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE. YOU KEEP SAYING IT. YOU ARE WRONG.

Are there reasons to be concerned? Of course. It has no chlorine and can therefore harbor harmful bacteria easier than chlorinated water. That does not make it NOT POTABLE. Chloriniated water can ALSO become NOT POTABLE if you add bacteria to it.

Sorry many... you just way off base here and keep posting Tomes of poor logic.
 
Again, please site a medical or scientific journal or other credible source to show it's potable. You keep trying to put me on the defence and I'm not going to do it. The medical fields, scientific fields and EPA have clearly said it's not safe and not potable so I'm not the one saying it. I'm only the messenger. If you want to make a case that it is potable then by all means do so but quote an expert.

You keep saying the "experts say this" and the "experts say that" but have yet to provide references. You posted a link to water standards from the EPA. So what? Again, you are confusing POTABLE with water standards.

You keep saying you "are only the messenger" yet you have provided PAGES of your own interpretation and flawd logic.

Honestly carlo... you appear to be doing a lot of running around and arm waving but saying the same thing over and over.
 
I very strongly feel I'm not the one "twisting" the definition of potable water. I'm not the one going against the community at large here, you are. I'm not the one bringing up nonsense stuff like coke and beer that has nothing to do with potable water you are.

No... I am telling you FLAT OUT that you have no idea what the word POTABLE means and have taken it WAY out of context in trying to apply it to DI water.

You keep saying RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE. You then write hundreds of lines of flawed logic to show that it IS NOT POTABLE.

I have merely shown that if you apply that logic to ANY other beverage, then it would be considered NOT POTABLE.

Again carlo

POTABLE = FIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION
 
Is Pellagrino sparkling water potable?
Bottled water is regulated at the federal and state level. At the federal level, bottled water is regulated as a food and, therefore, comes under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Bottled water is subject to the requirements of the federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, and, if it is sold as a consumer commodity, is subject to the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act. In the code of Federal Regulations, FDA has established standard of identity and standard of quality regulations for bottled water (21 CFR 103.35 and 165.l10), and current good manufacturing practice (CGMP) regulations for processing and bottling of bottled drinking water (21 CFR part 129). Go check out some of the requirements and then come back and correct your post.

Man can you ramble on about irrelevant stuff.

Are you saying that Pellagrino water IS NOT POTABLE?

What are you saying? Do you even know?
 
Again it's a twisted logic and my "towns" definition or standard has nothing to do with it.

That makes no sense what you said. Let me translate it for you

"If RO/DI water does not fit your towns definition of "safe/suitable water" it does not mean that it IS NOT "SAFE/SUITABLE".

Does that make sense to you? It surely doesn't to me.

Bean you haven't addressed the many health issues of DI water which is the reason it's not suitable and why it can't be considered potable.

You're missing the simple fact of the matter. It's proven on multiple fronts that drinking DI water over long periods causes numerous health issues. It's simply not safe or suitable. This is the heart of the matter you need to address if you want to show it is safe and suitable. Do you not understand this premise?

It's seems quite obvious that no matter what, you insist DI water is safe even in the face of the test to mentioned above where the city tests the water to see if it's safe. It's a contradiction. The fact that you CAN drink it does not make it potable. You CAN drink a cup of acid if you try hard enough but I wouldn't call that potable just because you can do it as it's not safe or suitable to drink.

Are you aware that there are basically two kinds of DI resins on the market? One is safe to create water that can be used for drinking or mixing with stuff to be drank while the other is not safe to use. If you have a color changing type DI resin it's not safe to use and the manufactures will tell you that in no uncertain terms. If you don't have the color changing type of resin you may or may not be OK. The safe type is more expensive and usually isn't what you would get in any "normal" reef type di cartridge. You normally need to seek them out.

DI water is just not a good idea to drink for many reasons BeanAnimal.

Carlo
 
Either way it doesn't matter because the medical field has shown it's not safe AND NOT of sufficient quality AND NOT suitable for long term use. LOGIC then says if it's not safe and not suitable and not of sufficient quality it's not potable. Seems pretty simple to me without any "twisting".

Please show this. Ohh wait you can't!

Are you saying that anything we drink that can hurt us in the long term is not considered POTABLE?

Honestly Carlo...

I tire of this nonsense. You simply have confused so many issues that it has become impossible to respond. Your insistance that RO/DI water is NOT POTABLE is comical and your reasoning is convoluted at best.
 
Sorry people but sounds like another great debate...

And as for BeanAnimal, It is people like you who stop people like me from posting in this forum. You seem to have to have the last word and if anyone else seems to know more than you, You come back with more stuff and try to mix it all up.....

The forum's are here to help people, Not argue with someone just because you seem to think you are always right...


Just my .02 cents worth...


Carry on All....
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10616999#post10616999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cayars
Again it's a twisted logic and my "towns" definition or standard has nothing to do with it.
NO it is YOUR APPLICATION of THEIR DEFINITION that is wrong. Their logic is NOT twisted, your application of their standards to YOUR understanding of the definition of POTABLE is what is wrong.


You're missing the simple fact of the matter. It's proven on multiple fronts that drinking DI water over long periods causes numerous health issues. It's simply not safe or suitable. This is the heart of the matter you need to address if you want to show it is safe and suitable. Do you not understand this premise?

1) Show those proven studies. (you can't)
2) Show that other POTABLE beverages pass those same "tests" (you can't)

You DO NOT understand the definition of POTABLE and therefore you entire 3 pages of rambling is pointless.


Are you aware that there are basically two kinds of DI resins on the market? One is safe to create water that can be used for drinking or mixing with stuff to be drank while the other is not safe to use
So what? There are two different kinds of oil on the market. Some is safer to put on food than others. Does that mean oil is not consumable?

In one breath you use the narrowest definition of a concept and in the next you paint with a broad brush to back up your statement.

For what it's worth... there are more than two types of "resin".

That is the problem here carlo. You have no frame of context for anything. It appears that all you are capable of doing is reguritating what you have read and applying your lack of knowledge to it.

You even said it yourself. YOUR JUST THE MESSENGER. I submit that your lack of understanding of this subject is severaly lacking. Your acting as a messenger and trying to fill in the gaps, but you don't have the personal experience or understanding to do so.

Ever hear the phrase "too smart for your own good"?

This is all about "RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE". Lets not confuse it with anything else.

As for the question of RO/DI water being able to leach ions from a brute container.... how many times do we have to say "yeah sure that is certainly something to look further into".
 
Last edited:
Heck, I think that the some of the best information comes out arguements. Of course, I'm kind of weird that way :) Once it gets to name calling it's a lost cause, but until then I say its just good clean fun....... :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10617112#post10617112 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Racing1
Sorry people but sounds like another great debate...

And as for BeanAnimal, It is people like you who stop people like me from posting in this forum. You seem to have to have the last word and if anyone else seems to know more than you, You come back with more stuff and try to mix it all up.....

The forum's are here to help people, Not argue with someone just because you seem to think you are always right...


Just my .02 cents worth...


Carry on All....

And it is people like you who step into a thread and make a personal attack while acting like an innocent bystander. At least Carlo is trying to add to the thread. Your just stirring up trouble.

As for the rest of your barb...

Feel free to use the search button using my name. I spend a majority of my time here helping people.

I don't think I am always right. I don't usually open my trap if I know I am wrong. Just becuase you can't (or don't want to) follow the debte does not give you the right to attack me or my intentions.

Carlo has stated here and in several other threads that RO/DI water IS NOT POTABLE. He has posted pages of what he thinks is supporting evidence that he is correct.

Is YOUR feeling that he is correct? Is your feeling that I (or anybody) that feels (or knows) differently should keep quiet and take his comments as the truth? Is your feeling that I should be silenced becuase you do not agree with me?
 
BeanAnimal, do me a favor and send a PM to a few of the different RO/DI manufactures who are sponsors on this system and ask them if you should drink from the RO or DI side.

Try a few people like Boomer or Randy. You'll see I'm not alone. While I don't know what Boomer will respond I do know what Randy will tell you since he's the one who informed me in the first place that DI water isn't potable or safe to drink.

I too don't usually get involved unless I know I'm right about something unless it's something you can debate till the cows come home and you want to try and learn something along the way that wouldn't come up without a good detailed debate.

In this case I do think I'm correct and have some major backing in my corner (EPA & Medical field). I feel that I'm justified in saying DI water isn't potable as the EPA and other major "experts" in the field say it's not potable. It also makes sense to me why it would not be potable. It makes sense to me why RO/DI units for drinking purposes have a bypass, etc... This goes with the logic in my mind why it's not considered safe or suitable to drink the DI water. Both from logic and from expert in the field.

You too have your own convictions why you'd consider it potable which defies me but that's ok too. We can agree to disagree. There are far worse things IMHO then worrying about drinking DI water especially in limited amounts.

We of course could go round and round but eventually will most likely end back here at the same point as I don't think either of us wants to budge at all. :)

I honestly feel that with the medical industry saying it's not safe to drink long term and with the EPA saying DI water isn't potable I don't need to defend myself so I'm not going to anymore.

IMHO it's foolish to fly in contradiction to all we know about it and say it's safe to drink or to tell others it's safe to drink when you don't know what kind of equipment they have and what type of resin they use. To me hearing someone say it's safe is a liability and I'd highly suggest checking with your RO/DI vendor and your doctor before doing so.

Anyway, I'm done with the "potable" debate but will check back in on the thread later to check on the status of the Rubbermaid trash cans and see if I learn anything.

Carlo

PS I've read a lot of your messages in threads Bean and normally agree 99%+ of the time. Outside of this thread, I generally find you very well informed and usually enjoy reading your posts. :)

Have a good one!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10617642#post10617642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cayars
BeanAnimal, do me a favor and send a PM to a few of the different RO/DI manufactures who are sponsors on this system and ask them if you should drink from the RO or DI side.

1) I have spent considerable time talking with several of these vendors. A few on a personal basis on many ocassions.

2) What does it matter? Honestly carlo, I am only responding to the "RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE" comments and subsuquent debate.

We can certainly discuss risks of drinking a beverage that has no chlorine or other means to kill bacterie.

We can certainly discuss the risks bacterial blooms in filter housings and other equipment pose.

That has nothing to do with "RO/DI is NOT POTABLE"

Try a few people like Boomer or Randy. You'll see I'm not alone.
Yes, they may warn against certain aspects of drinking RO/DI water. There are risks of bacteria. You may not want to drink the stuff if you are stranded in a desert or trying to recover from a low electrolyte condition (sports?)

However YOU KEEP SAYING IT IS NOT POTABLE. That is the point here :)

In this case I do think I'm correct and have some major backing in my corner (EPA & Medical field).
No you don't have backing. You have not provided a shred. You keep saying you do (have this proponderance of evidence). Where is it?

IT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION THAT RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE that is the problem here. You are applying "Potable water standards" where they were not intended to be applied. I don't think your wrapping your head around this simple point.

I feel that I'm justified in saying DI water isn't potable as the EPA and other major "experts" in the field say it's not potable.
Where? You keep saying this, but where are the experts and studies and EPA documents?

There are far worse things IMHO then worrying about drinking DI water especially in limited amounts.
Stop the presses! Now your saying it is OK in limited amounts? Would that make it POTABLE? Which is it carlo :)

I honestly feel that with the medical industry saying it's not safe to drink long term and with the EPA saying DI water isn't potable I don't need to defend myself so I'm not going to anymore.
Where does the EPA say this? Where does the medical industry say this? If they do say it, why do they say it? Lawn darts are illegal because morons stand under them and get brained. What would you say when somebody said "hey man don't touch those lawn darts, they are deadly! The CPSC said they kill people".

Do they say (if they say) that RO/DI is not safe to consume because it has no integral means of killing bacterie and COULD pose a hazard to SOME people? Your cobling together what you have read and using flawed logic to tie it all together.

IMHO it's foolish to fly in contradiction to all we know about it and say it's safe to drink or to tell others it's safe to drink when you don't know what kind of equipment they have and what type of resin they use.
What about drinking beer from your local bar who does not clean the taps as often as possible? Any idea on the bacteria that is there? Have you seen the green and black slime that comes out of beer lines after just a week? Ever get "the runs" after drinking draft beer? What about your icemaker in your freezer? Ever seen the black slime drop out on ice cubes in a public ice maker? Is it foolish to tell people it is OK to drink water from that nightmare of a bacteria farm? Anything can be unsafe under the right conditions.

I am certainly not asking anybody to drink RO/DI water or telling them to go against what their vendor recomends. I am merely pointing out that your statement "RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE" is wrong. It is the entire basis of this entire 3 pages of exchange.

anyway, I'm done with the "potable" debate but will check back in on the thread later to check on the status of the Rubbermaid trash cans and see if I learn anything.
Yes, that is of great interest to me also. Your a smart guy. I just think your confusing the definition of POTABLE with "POTABLE WATER STANDARDS" and drawing a very inaccurate conclusion as fact.

Sorry If any of my responses have been rude. It is not my intent at all. I am blunt in an attempt to convey my point.

I respect that you have an opinion and are attempting to debate it in a kind manner.

PS I've read a lot of your messages in threads Bean and normally agree 99%+ of the time. Outside of this thread, I generally find you very well informed and usually enjoy reading your posts. :)
Thank you for the compliment. I also hope that we can have a spirited debate about something else soon. I learn, you learn, or somebody learns. All is good.
 
president89 hasn't been back to the thread he started for some info. I wonder why...... Poor guy.
 
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/botwatr.html

Per the FDA, deionization an acceptable method of making "purified water" and it is fit for human consumption.

The WHO (which is a bunch of ridiculously over-zealous health nannies IMHO) has concluded that drinking deionized water is sub-optimal based on several very old, and very questionable studies that showed demineralized water may contribute to malnutrition over time for some people and there are some equally questionable studies that show a long term correlation between drinking highly mineralized water and a decreased incident of some types of heart disease. (Any scientist will tell that correlational studies are the very weakest form of evidence though as the study more likely showed a correlation between regions with highly mineralized water and good health care.) You can believe the WHO if you want to, but even they don't claim that it's dangerous to drink a glass of DI water.

The EPA (and Department of Defense) does not recommend the large scale use of DI water for municiple water systems because it is corrosive on the plumbing and it is susceptible to bacterial infection. That seems like a no-brainer to me. I agree with the EPA but this has diddly-squat to do with the safety of DI water.

Personally, I'm siding with the FDA. Drink DI water if you want to. It's too expensive to drink all of the time and doesn't taste very good though so I drink water out of my faucet.
 
The WHO is is an outright joke. They are a political body, not a health organization. When they get involved in anything, rest assured it will cost a lot of money and do little good.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10618112#post10618112 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trmiv
president89 hasn't been back to the thread he started for some info. I wonder why...... Poor guy.

Hmmm.

I had a 46 gallon rolling can (~$40 version) that lasted about two years. It eventually sprung a leak at one of the sharper bends near the bottom. I didn't see any problems in my tank due to it's use. I did notice a slight musty smell every once in a while. That is to be expected when it is storing RO/DI water that doesn't contain any chlorine or any sort of disinfectant. I just rinsed it out with a light bleach solution every once in a while.

When that can started leaking I replaced it with similar rolling can (also ~$40 version). The second can lasted a month before cracking in a similar manner. I was keeping it roughly 3/4 full (much fuller than I typically kept my previous can).

My next can won't have wheels, fancy shapes or anything with sharp bends. I never used the wheels anyways. It will just be a standard can similar to this providing that I can find one labeled as food grade: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100138897
 
Last edited:
Back
Top