Newbie questions about Rock choice and aquascaping

[SereneAquatic]

My husband and I have been researching, watching videos and lurking on the forums for a bit and finally decided to take the plunge into reef keeping. Over the last couple of days we purchased most of our equipment with Black Friday sales to help reduce some of the start up cost (Estimate we saved about 400.00?).

We decided to buy the Red Sea Reefer 425 XL Deluxe tank, even though we're a little intimidated by the sump setups. (Considered the Max series for a good long while)

Yesterday we purchased rock at the local saltwater aquarium store, and while there is a tiny bit of Fiji (I think), most of the main structure is not typical saltwater rock. Unfortunately I can't remember its name... It does have some holes... but it's very heavy so presumably, dense. I tried to upload pictures but it isn't working. :hmm2: I'll try to figure it out in edit.

My Questions
1. Since we are not sure that the surface area is not super high on the new rocks, we purchased a big bag of Bio Balls to place in the sump. How do you know when you have 'enough' surface area for bacteria to grow well? and will the Bio Balls be enough?

2. If we upgrade to Marine Pure blocks later, do we leave the bio balls? Swap them slowly? Is there any negative impact to doing this swap out later?

3. Once we build and pin the rock structure, I've read that you should epoxy the structure to the glass. Do you use actual epoxy, or silicone? What if you ever want to remove or move the structure in the future? How do you remove the epoxy holding the rock to the glass?

4. Do we HAVE to have a small piece of actual wet live rock with our dry rock for curing process? We purchased the RED SEA REEF MATURE PRO KIT for bacteria growth starter.

5. What is the proper salinity for curing the rock?

6. Do you have to use RO/DI water for curing the rock? We have ordered an RO/DI unit but it isn't here yet, and we're going to need to figure out how to hook the thing up lol. We'd like to get the rock curing as soon as possible, but if we need to wait or go get proper water, we can.

7. If you dont have a refugium, do you need a light on in the sump for any reason (other than when you're working on things)?

Geez... I have more questions than I thought. One just led to another. Thank you for your help on these. We're nervous and excited all at once!

 

[SAT]

I don't know if the rock you purchased will do the job or not. It could be fine if it's porous enough. Bio balls are traditionally used in a wet/dry filter, where they provide a good surface for aerobic bacteria, which is good at converting ammonia waste into nitrates. In contrast, the pores in live rock and Marine Pure blocks are better at hosting anaerobic bacteria, which is capable of converting ammonia and nitrates into nitrogen gas, thus releasing it from the system.

I suggest leaving the bio balls out of the system. If you find after the tank has cycled that you are having trouble with nitrate accumulation, you may then want to introduce some Marine Pure blocks.

I prefer to dry-lay my rocks except where a construct is unstable. I have never attached a rock to my glass. Either epoxy (the logs sold for for aquarium use) or silicone can work (again, making sure it's aquarium safe). You can also use cyanoacrylate gel (super glue). The epoxy typically looks best, where it is exposed, and can be applied under water.

For curing rock you want full strength saltwater (35 ppt or 1.025) made from RO/DI water. If you use tap water you may be introducing something you don't want into the water (e.g., phosphates or heavy metals), which may be absorbed into the rocks. If you can't afford DI, just RO is adequate.

You only need a light on your sump or refugium if you want to grow algae or plants in it. Growing Chaetomorpha algae is a good way to export excess nutrients.

Good luck!

 

[Xxxtremewv]

I personally dont like attaching rock to bottom of glass anywhere. In my eyes at least, it makes me nervous because if you ever have a fish or something die and you have to get it out, or you have maintenence that needs done that requires it to move youll regret it. I usually just set it in and go by feel on how solid and stable it feels and then put sand in around it so if you have some creatures that move sand around (eg watchman goby) and he sifts sand around, the tock cant shift and fall for the most part because its already on the glass for the most part on the bottom of it

As far as what to use IF you do want to attach it, bulk reef supply has a bunch of information on their aquascaping episode in their 52 weeks of reefing for sifferent kinda of adhesives

 

[JUNBUG361]

I’d use the marine pure block over the bio balls. And what they said ^^

 

[rocsec1]

I would get rid of the bio balls and go with the marine pure. I have two blocks of it in my sump and it does a great job.

 

[SereneAquatic]

Thank you all for the feedback. We've taken your advice into account (this thread and the other that I posted because this one had disappeared... (I guess I was 'quarantined for a minute too :lol2: ) and have decided to do a little chipping/chiseling on the rocks at their contact points to get more surface area touching (friction) and only do a tiny bit of aquarium putty to hold the upper part of the bridges. They dont want to move really as it is and the rocks are pretty large and heavy so we can't imagine how a fish, or even ourselves, could move them accidentally.

This also ended up being a life saver in general because even though these rocks are heavy and dense, there are enough holes, crevices, tunnels, etc to make using the pins very difficult. We were struggling to find a solid enough place to drill for pins and were striking out. This makes it much easier.

It sounds like we should go ahead and swap the bio balls for the marine pure at the get-go, so we'll likely return the balls to the store when we pick up the tank we ordered next week.

 

[SereneAquatic]

Forgot to mention... we're thinking about trying something a little strange. The rock structure we built has some neat tunnel caves and hiding places, but once the sand goes in, they will be a lot smaller. I think we're going to buy some 2" acrylic blocks and stick those to the 'feet' of the rocks to hold the structure up a little bit higher. The blocks will sit on the glass and the bridge will be high enough to still look good ON the sand while the structure itself is still technically UNDER the sand. It is also a little bit of a buffer between these super heavy rocks and the glass. If we have to lift it out, we'll just take the rock and it's acrylic base out as one piece.

This would probably make more sense with a picture, but once we get it together I can post a link to the videos we're doing so we can look back and be like 'Huh, what noobs'

 

[billdogg]

I saw this post this about 3 minutes ago. Already posted in the other one. It sounds like y'all are on the right track. Without pictures I can only guess, but it sounds like "Holey Rock" to me. You are correct in thinking that it will not be as porous as some other types of reef rock, but I have a good portion in my 120DT too. I really like all the ready-made tunnels it provides for the smaller fish to swim through and/or sleep in. If you can, I would suggest a few pieces of real reef rock (it will look like coral skeleton because, well, it's coral skeleton) It is generally very easy to sculpt and if you intersperse it with the rocks you already have you will end up with a very nice looking structure that will have much of the porosity you are looking for. Rather than the Marinepure blocks, I just place extra pieces of reef rock in my sump area. An added benefit of doing that is that down the road, when you have the need to change things up in the DT (and you will), you will already have nice cycled rocks to use. I go so far as to periodically switch some out so that my pod eating fish have some new places to hunt.

One of the downsides of Holey Rock is that it can sometimes contain phosphates, so you might want to soak a piece or two in water for a few days and then run a quick PO4 test.

You do have test kits? If not, they should be on your "must have" list. Starting out you will need to be testing for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and possibly Phosphate. Once your tank is established (say 6 months in) you will no longer need to test for Ammonia or Nitrate except in case of emergency, so a simple API kit will get you going for now. If you decide on corals, you will then need to start testing for Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium, but for now, don't spend the $$$ on them.

Keep the questions coming, and POST PICTURES!!!

 

[SereneAquatic]

It sounds like y'all are on the right track. Without pictures I can only guess, but it sounds like "Holey Rock" to me.

If you're super curious and think you can name it for us, you can see it a LITTLE bit in the youtube video in the signature. The next 'episode' will be about the rock structure but it isn't ready yet. If you paused and looked for a minute you may be able to tell what some of it is. We mixed up a few different types, but the big ones, and my favorites, aren't shown very well.

You are correct in thinking that it will not be as porous as some other types of reef rock, but I have a good portion in my 120DT too. I really like all the ready-made tunnels it provides for the smaller fish to swim through and/or sleep in. If you can, I would suggest a few pieces of real reef rock (it will look like coral skeleton because, well, it's coral skeleton) It is generally very easy to sculpt and if you intersperse it with the rocks you already have you will end up with a very nice looking structure that will have much of the porosity you are looking for. Rather than the Marinepure blocks, I just place extra pieces of reef rock in my sump area. An added benefit of doing that is that down the road, when you have the need to change things up in the DT (and you will), you will already have nice cycled rocks to use. I go so far as to periodically switch some out so that my pod eating fish have some new places to hunt.One of the downsides of Holey Rock is that it can sometimes contain phosphates, so you might want to soak a piece or two in water for a few days and then run a quick PO4 test.

You do have test kits? If not, they should be on your "must have" list. Starting out you will need to be testing for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and possibly Phosphate. Once your tank is established (say 6 months in) you will no longer need to test for Ammonia or Nitrate except in case of emergency, so a simple API kit will get you going for now. If you decide on corals, you will then need to start testing for Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium, but for now, don't spend the $$$ on them.

Keep the questions coming, and POST PICTURES!!!

This sounds reasonable. I like the idea of being able to swap things out without trying to cure things again. Someone said that curing dry rock isn't usually necessary, but we're doing it on these anyway b/c of some organic matter we could see in the tunnels. Our test kits are 'in the mail', ordered from BRS on their black Friday 15% off deals. They should be here soon and we can see how it's doing from a chemical level.

Last night the kids thought we were weird because we wanted to go "check on (aka "look at") our bucket of rocks" in the garage. :frog: