BTA Tissue Damage

[monicaswizzle]

Hi all--

I regret to report that I have recently killed two BTA in my tank. Both of them developed a "soft spot" (white tissue that began to sluff off) where the foot and oral disc connect. Eventually this spread until the entire anemone died.

The first anemone had been in my tank for about a week when it wandered up to my SEIO powerhead. When I found it the foot had been sucked part way into the powerhead. I turned the powerhead off and allowed the anemone to withdraw its foot on its own. There was no broken tissue or other apparent damage and I returned the anemone to the LR and put screen around the intakes on the powerheads to make sure it didn't happen again. About a week later the anemone developed the "soft spot" and died about a week after that (it was a 6" BTA, so it took a while).

I assumed the damage was caused by the powerhead incident, and since I had screened things off purchased another BTA. The second one appeared healthy and happy for about three weeks and then suddenly had a similar soft spot with no cause that I could determine. The anemone had moved around some on the rocks, but hadn't been anywhere near powerheads or overflow and had seemed healthy, happy and starting to settle in. The undamaged part continued to respond well to light (nicely inflated, etc) and even fed on some silversides, but again the "rot" spread and the anemone died about a week later.

My tomato clowns loved hosting in both BTA (especially the male which spent 90% of its time burried in the BTA), so I would love to get another, but don't want to do so unless I have corrected whatever the problem is.

My tank parameters are all good--no nitrates, nitrites or amonia register on the tests, SG 1.024, ph 8.3. Other than the clowns, a DSB, LR, macroalgae and a few mushrooms that came with the LR, there are no inhabitants in the tank (other than DSB microfauna). 45 gallon tank with a 30 gallon sump.

Any ideas what might be causing the damage to the BTA? The clowns host, but don't appear to bite or "attack" the BTA. I am puzzled.

One last item. The tank is in a basement and with recent hot and humid weather the copper water pipes above the tank have been sweating and dropping water into the tank. I don't know if that would be enough copper to cause a problem, but I did add pipe insulation to stop the problem when I noticed it. Even if it did add enough copper to be toxic, I wouldn't expect the reaction of the BTA to be tissue rot, but I am not exactly sure how copper toxicity would manifest.

Thanks for any suggestions/help.

 

[kaimarkhirst]

copper poisoning..... 110% copper poisoning..

This is bad as it comes as its distilled oxidised copper with all other god knows what from those pipes..

Youll need to do a test to find out how much copper and dissolved metals are in the water as this can and likely will be extermely bad for your tank stability. Algae and cynobacteria can break out....

Once youve found out how much is in the tank, start with water changes and rock cleaning process to stop any outbreak of undesirables...

 

[Toddrtrex]

I would get a poly filter and run it in a high flow area, and see what color it changes.

Do you have any other inverts in that tank? If so, how are they doing? While this could very well be from the dripping, I am not sold on it being the cause.

 

[monicaswizzle]

Thanks for the thoughts. I will get a copper test and see what it shows. I am not familiar with a poly filter. It sounds like it is both a filter and a test? I will try a web search to see what I can find, but if anyone seeing this knows what Todd is describing, give me some details.

I am not surprised that small amounts of copper could cause major problems, but I still am surprised that it would manifest as tissue decay on the BTA.

As far as other inverts in the tank, I have only one (in addition to the micro fauna and the hitch hiker shrooms). I bought a small captive propogated waving hand coral at the same time that I bought the last BTA. It has more than doubled in size since I put it in the tank and appears very healthy and happy.

I'll let you know what a copper test shows.

 

[monicaswizzle]

Turns out I had a Seachem copper test on hand, so I tested. There is no copper detectable via the test.

I also found the Poly Filters on line and ordered some. I will run the poly filter for awhile once it arrives and let you know the results.

I am wondering if I could have a sharp edge on some of the LR that would be doing damage to the BTA? I don't see an obvious problem, but the most recent BTA would spread out over the rocks during the lights on period and withdraw below the rocks during the night. I suppose if there was a sharp or jagged edge it might eventually have caused physical damage just by moving around on the rock?

 

[kaimarkhirst]

its not just the copper thats the concern... Copper pipes dont disintegrate, thats why theres not copper present. As i stated above, its the oxidised metals that are attracted to the copper and are dissolved into the dripping water. Copper by its chemical composition attracts oxides to its mass, oxidised metals are dissolveable, thereby releasing into your aquarium.

Its going to be very hard to detect what compounds are in unless you undergo a chemicals test or a sio2 test and neither may show anything..

The only way that an anemone will dissolve like this from the inside out is from a foreign element in the water column....

Any other opinions?

 

[Toddrtrex]

...
The only way that an anemone will dissolve like this from the inside out is from a foreign element in the water column....

Sorry, but that isn't always the case. I have seen several Haddonis dissolve from the inside out that had nothing to do with foreign elements in the water column.

That situation can also be caused by a bacterial infection and/or some damage during transport/collection.

 

[monicaswizzle]

its not just the copper thats the concern... Copper pipes dont disintegrate, thats why theres not copper present. As i stated above, its the oxidised metals that are attracted to the copper and are dissolved into the dripping water. Copper by its chemical composition attracts oxides to its mass, oxidised metals are dissolveable, thereby releasing into your aquarium.

Its going to be very hard to detect what compounds are in unless you undergo a chemicals test or a sio2 test and neither may show anything..

Thanks for the further explanation. Other than the continued good health of everything else in the tank (which may not mean much since the only invert large enough for me to clearly track is the waving hand coral), I have no reason to believe there might be another cause. I got the poly filter during the week. I should have time to install it this weekend. I will run that for a while and see what it shows. If there are other unknown compounds causing the problem I suppose I could use another BTA to test whether or not the poly filter removed them, but that seems pretty irresponsible.

The idea that it might also be caused by tissue damage or a bacterial infection really opens the door to speculation. With the first BTA tissue damage is a distinct possibility since it did get sucked well into a powerhead before I found it and turned the powerhead off. Although there weren't any evident tissue tears or breaks, I am sure there must have been minute ones and something similar to "bruising", if the tissue of an anemone can be damaged in that way.

So, for the first one it might have been the result of tissue damage, but the second anemone had been very healthy looking for over two weeks and didn't have any clear "incident" that might have caused damage other than a moderate amount of moving around on the LR. I assume it is pretty rare for a BTA to manage to damage tissue just by moving around fixed objects, or BTA's would be a lot more rare in nature.

So, I am left to wonder and puzzle about it. It would be easier to give up the idea of adding a BTA if my clowns hadn't been so clearly happy to host in one.

I will let you know if I figure anything out. Thanks again for taking time and sharing your thoughts.