Bubble King Setup, Tuning and trouble shooting thread. Post your questions here!
- Thread starter machodik
- Start date
slief
RC Sponsor
Open the wedge pipe a tiny tiny bit. Just a crack is all it should take. That will help make it darker and stinkier but it will slow the skim collection down until you get a heavier load.
biecacka
Active member
Open it a bit. To lower water level a tad. My new fish should be ready Tuesday, I have 10 coming in. That will put me at 31 fish total. I dose vinegar and vodka as well to help my nitrate issue I have been having. It's been a week and I am already pleased with the results I'm getting, can't wait to reach its potential.
Corey
Corey
I ordered the BK 200 double cone with RD3 and I am waiting for it!!
Any suggestion how to run it and break it in, in a new tank that hasn't been cycled yet and therefore has no NO3?
And any links or suggestions on how to properly cycle a potential sps reef aquarium?
Thanks!
Any suggestion how to run it and break it in, in a new tank that hasn't been cycled yet and therefore has no NO3?
And any links or suggestions on how to properly cycle a potential sps reef aquarium?
Thanks!
slief
RC Sponsor
As for breaking in the new skimmer, you really don't need it during the cycle and it can be counter productive. If you decide to run it during break in, set it to around 27 watts and remove the drain plug and let the collection cup drip back into the sump until you get through the cycle and have some fish in the tank. As for cycling the tank, I'd toss a piece of raw shrimp in it and let that start your cycle. The tank will take around 30 days to complete the cycle. If you are starting with live rock, that usually helps with seeding the tank with a wide range of bacteria which can help shorten the cycle.
biecacka
Active member
Scott, I opened it a bit and got nothing in cup. So I closed it a bit today to see how it goes for the next few hours. I added 10 more fish to the tank today and upped my vodka/vinegar dosing to 4/10ml of each. Not a lot but an increase. Hopefully tomorrow we will see some sludge in there, if not I'll close it a very small amount again. Any other pointers?
Corey
Corey
slief
RC Sponsor
No pointers to add. The additional fish and feeding will add dissolved organics to your water which will increase your foam production. As such, the lower level in the skimmer may be needed but go back to what was working before you backed it off and see how it does after a couple days. I would expect an increase in skimmate so you will likely need to fine tune a bit more.
slief
RC Sponsor
You will have to make your adjustments based on the skimmate production. Personally, I've never had to dose vodka or any other carbon sources but I would adjust my skimmer no differently if I was. I'd adjust my skimmer to produce the best quality foam that the results in the best consistent skimmate and personally, I've always preferred to skim wet as that always results in the most consistent results.
slief
RC Sponsor
Not necessarily drier than you were. It's about finding a balance and what works for your system. If I were you, I'd be experimenting a bit more. Especially since you just added more stock and need to make adjustments anyway. When I looked at your last video, to me it seemed like the bubbles (when the lid was removed) appeared to be bursting kind of quickly. This was probably in part due to there not being as much dissolved organics as you might have thought there were but if it were my skimmer, I would experiment some more and lower the wattage 1 watt and see what that does to the foam. It would likely require raising the level in the skimmer a bit to generate more skimmate by closing the wedge but then again, it may not since you just increased your load. The foam is why I suggested lowering the water level first to see what that did. It's all about learning the skimmer and how it responds to small adjustments once you are in the "ball park". Every system is different which is why you need to experiment to find what works best for you tank based on it's load, sump level, salinity etc.
You are trying to find the sweet spot where you generate the stinkiest skimmate possible while also keeping it consistent. These skimmers will generate some of the most foul smelling skimmate that I have seen with any skimmer I have ever used. It's the ability to really fine tune these that makes them really great. I've said it before and I will say it again, don't be afraid to play with it a bit more to find that sweet spot for your tank. You are close but that doesn't mean it can't get better. Play with the pump speed a bit and use the water level to compensate for the pump speed adjustments. You will know if your water level is right by the skimmate production being consistent and you will know if the pump speed is ideal by the stench of the skimmate coupled with the production. Really watery skimmate will won't smell as bad as drier skim but consistency is what you are after so you need to find that balance and you are close.
biecacka
Active member
Gotcha. Thanks! Can you explain to me what lowering the skimmer into deeper water will do or is it not really needed with the addition of more fish. It is amazing to know that 20 fish in my tank is a light load for this skimmer and that 30 is moderate. 
I don't know about the DOC's, I assume there are plenty. 20 fish for a year, feeding 2-4 vibes a day and producing no skim for a year. My nitrates are 75-100 as of last night. There has to be something in there I would think. But the skimmer is almost dialed in. I am going to thicken it up just a bit from the sludge it pulled the other day.
I dropped it to 26 and shut the wedge a bit. I'll wait an hour or so and tinker with it again. In used to the beckett where you let it set for hours/day between adjustments.
Corey
I don't know about the DOC's, I assume there are plenty. 20 fish for a year, feeding 2-4 vibes a day and producing no skim for a year. My nitrates are 75-100 as of last night. There has to be something in there I would think. But the skimmer is almost dialed in. I am going to thicken it up just a bit from the sludge it pulled the other day. I dropped it to 26 and shut the wedge a bit. I'll wait an hour or so and tinker with it again. In used to the beckett where you let it set for hours/day between adjustments.
Corey
slief
RC Sponsor
Gotcha. Thanks! Can you explain to me what lowering the skimmer into deeper water will do or is it not really needed with the addition of more fish. It is amazing to know that 20 fish in my tank is a light load for this skimmer and that 30 is moderate.
I dropped it to 26 and shut the wedge a bit. I'll wait an hour or so and tinker with it again. In used to the beckett where you let it set for hours/day between adjustments.
Corey
Lowering the skimmer deeper into the sump (same as raising the water level in the sump) will have the same effect as closing the wedge. It will raise the water level in the skimmer. If you need to close the wedge beyond the 50% point, then I would suggest raising the water level in the sump or lowering the skimmer so you aren't having the resort to restricting the flow out of the skimmer too much as that can cause surging in the skimmer. I think I mentioned it before but if not, I will mention in now, I always try to adjust the skimmer level via the sump so I start with the wedge pipe nearly wide open. I find the best setting for the skimmer in terms of bubble quality and then make subtle sump level adjustments to get the level in the ball park with the wedge wide open. Then all I do is make very subtle adjustments to the wedge pipe to raise of lower the level inside the skimmer. Keep in mind that the speed of the pump has a direct impact on the water level in the skimmer just as it does the bubble quality. I Adjust the pump to get the thickest foam I can. In the case of the old Red Dragons with the adjustable volute, that meant turning the volute. In the case of the RD3, that requires finding the sweet spot for the pump. As I said, every system is different. It takes a bit of playing around. You find a ball park setting with the pump, then you slow it down and see how the foam looks a few hours later. Then you speed it up a bit and see what that does. A bit of testing and you find the sweet spot. Once I find that sweet spot, I then adjust the sump level to get the water level where it transitions from bubbles to foam up to the base of the neck at the top of the part where the neck meets/threads to the body. Then I use the wedge pipe to adjust it up from there. That is how I find tune my skimmers.
As for your nitrate issue, I suspect that is the result of a couple things. First, skimmers remove dissolved solids. They don't really remove nutrients although these solids eventually will break down and contribute to nutrients. The big factor in nutrient reduction like nitrates is bacteria. In the case of the natural approach to bacterial reduction in our tanks, live rock plays a big role in that because it provides the surface space for the bacteria to congregate. This is one of the benefits of deep sand beds as they provide additional surface space for denitrifying bacteria much the same way live rock does. Some people use fake rock for their aquascapes but fake rock isn't as porous and doesn't offer the same surface space within the rock like real live rock does. Often the tanks that have high levels of nitrates don't have a lot of live rock or at least enough live rock for the load. The other factor is waste accumulation in the substrate. Having waste break down in the sand and not vacuuming with regularity is a recipe for high nitrates. This is where lots of flow can help so that waste is sent over the overflow so it can be skimmed out and or filtered out via socks. Refugiums and turf scrubbers help consume nutrients from the tank but they don't remove dissolved solids so you still end up with particles in the water and detritus that the skimmer would otherwise remove. Cabron dosing generates bacteria that consumes nitrate causing nutrients but it is a crutch or band aid in my opinion.
At the end of the day, the skimmer is part of a complex solution. The skimmer removes solids that become nutrients. The skimmer adds dissolved o2 to the system. The combination of those two factors increase ORP. The skimmer is also an important part of the gas exchange process that removes nitrogen from our water but it's not the end all be all when it comes to nitrate issues. Its only one part of the solution.
In my tank, I don't have detectable nitrates despite having a pretty good load. I attribute that to a lot of live rock. I have somewhere between 700 and 1000 pounds of it. I also run a 30"x36" deep sand bed in my refugium that has a combination of mud, sand a live rock rubble. I also run two refugiums. I have a high amount of flow that is well planned out to insure that stuff doesn't settle on the bottom and I use filter socks to catch the solids that pass into the sump. Lastly, my tank has been up for around 18 years and is very well established. I have a bacterial bed that can keep up with anything I throw at it.
As for 20 fish being a low load vs 30 being a moderate load.. Load is relative to waste from the fish and feeding. You can have 30 small fish in the tank and have that be a small load. Size of the fish and how you feed is where dissolved solids (DOC's) are generated. The amount of waste that skimmer produces consistently is the best sign of your load. This assuming that the skimmer is tuned well.
biecacka
Active member
I have had to cut back seriously on my feedings for my fish. Some have actually lost weight. But my nutrient level is absurd. I didn't skim for over a year. Not 2ounces. I have a fair amount of rock but limited sump space for more. My tank is in the living room as is my sump....of my apartment. :lol: Little sand, and I continually blow my rocks to remove any debris so it can get to my sump/socks. I know they aren't the same but they can be related. That is why I pointed out my nutate issue. I was feeding 3-5 cubes a day plus nori. I'm down to 1-2 cubes to be safe plus nori. Ever so often they get an extra cube. I have no detectable phosphates. I have a plan of attack to reduce the nutrient build up tho. That's another talk. Only about 10 of my fish are over 5-6 inches for now. So they are almost all small but will grow sometime. I am going to tinker some more, the wedge is only closed about about 30% now. I'll see how it goes as it sits in 8 inches of water now, I might lower it.
Corey
Corey
I have a double cone 250 with rd3 pump. Running at 40watts in 9.5" of water. Wedge pipe is 80-90% closed. The water line is half way up the cup, I'm not getting real good skim mate. I've had the skimmer running for 3 weeks since I last cleaned it and only able to get 3/4" of skim.
My tank is a 250 with 80 gallon sump. I would say I have a high bio load with 20 fish and 7 of them being tangs raning from med to large size.
What am I doing wrong? I see people filling their cups up within a week or so. I can go months without filling my cup. I bought the avast neck cleaning hoping that would improve skim mate but nada.
Please help me get the most out of my skimmer, tank has been up and running for two years.
My tank is a 250 with 80 gallon sump. I would say I have a high bio load with 20 fish and 7 of them being tangs raning from med to large size.
What am I doing wrong? I see people filling their cups up within a week or so. I can go months without filling my cup. I bought the avast neck cleaning hoping that would improve skim mate but nada.
Please help me get the most out of my skimmer, tank has been up and running for two years.
biecacka
Active member
Maybe skimmer is too big. I debated on that skimmer and advised to get the 200. No need to oversize these skimmers. Same size tank and 30 fish. Tangs, angels some the size of my hand. I'm sure scott will chime in but I'll take a shoot....
Lower the skimmer into deeper water. Maybe drop it an inch or 1/2. Lower the speed to 35. That will allow for longer contact time in the chamber.
Corey
Lower the skimmer into deeper water. Maybe drop it an inch or 1/2. Lower the speed to 35. That will allow for longer contact time in the chamber.
Corey
slief
RC Sponsor
Reduce the pump speed to 37 watts... That will make better foam and is a good power level for the 250. Also, I assume you have the ozone port capped off?? If not, it should be. From the sounds of it, your load is lower than you think for that skimmer. While 9.5" is at the higher end of the range for that skimmer, you may need to go deeper since you are resorting to closing the wedge pipe that much. If you have to go past 1/2 closed, the skimmer should be deeper so you can open the wedge a bit. Reduce the pump speed and give it a day and go from there.. 37-38 watts max is the best range for that skimmer and a little bit can make a big difference in terms of skimmate quality.
slief
RC Sponsor
LOL... You're hired! :thumbsup:
Good advice actually.. The force is strong with you.
If he lowered it down to 35 watts, 1/2" deeper would be about spot on although that is really kind of deeper than it should need to be with a good load.. And given his load, the normal sweet spot of 37 watts may not be low enough.. Additional contact time at 35 watts wouldn't necessarily hurt.. I'd start at 37 watts and 1/4" deeper at this point though and then go from there..
biecacka
Active member
I can help others just not myself!!!! :lol: no mine looks good this morning.
I read these threads sometimes 2-3 times each post to learn so I can trouble shoot mine and help others maybe down the road. I have learned a lot from your posts scott!
Hired?!!! How did you know I was job searching???? :lol:
Corey
I read these threads sometimes 2-3 times each post to learn so I can trouble shoot mine and help others maybe down the road. I have learned a lot from your posts scott!
Hired?!!! How did you know I was job searching???? :lol:
Corey
clorox
New member
Agreed, I learned a lot too thanks to Scott. I think I mastered my DC180, now I am getting daily consistency and most important to me....predictability when making fine tuning changes. I can't say enough praise about RE skimmers and products.
My only complaint is the control box attached to the pump in the older RD3's. I wish RE offered some retrofit kit for users that want to (need to) detach the pump for cleaning, maintenance etc. without voiding the warranty.
I could easily do it myself, but I know that if I cut the control cable and installed a connector I would most certainly void the warranty.
Anyway, not the end of the world. It's just a nice convenience to have
