Bubble King Setup, Tuning and trouble shooting thread. Post your questions here!
- Thread starter machodik
- Start date
slief
RC Sponsor
You certainly seem to understand it well now. I'm glad your skimmer is working well for you and I'm especially glad to help!
Agreed, I learned a lot too thanks to Scott. I think I mastered my DC180, now I am getting daily consistency and most important to me....predictability when making fine tuning changes. I can't say enough praise about RE skimmers and products.
My only complaint is the control box attached to the pump in the older RD3's. I wish RE offered some retrofit kit for users that want to (need to) detach the pump for cleaning, maintenance etc. without voiding the warranty.
I could easily do it myself, but I know that if I cut the control cable and installed a connector I would most certainly void the warranty.
Anyway, not the end of the world. It's just a nice convenience to have
Thanks for the positive feedback guys!
I hear you on the fixed connection concern. There is a good reason behind the fixed connection though. Connecting the pump to the controller while the controller has power to it can result in a damaged pump or damaged controller. As such, this was done as a safety precaution because inevitably, some people would connect the pumps to a powered controller resulting in failures of controllers or pumps. This would obviously impact warranty rates so fixed wiring was used to prevent accidental induced failures. The RD3 230 includes a removable pump connection which should trickle down to other RD3 models in the future but there is no timeline on that. I also don't know what if any changes are being made to the controller circuitry to prevent failures as a result of hot plugging the pump into the controller.
Agreed, I learned a lot too thanks to Scott. I think I mastered my DC180, now I am getting daily consistency and most important to me....predictability when making fine tuning changes. I can't say enough praise about RE skimmers and products.
My only complaint is the control box attached to the pump in the older RD3's. I wish RE offered some retrofit kit for users that want to (need to) detach the pump for cleaning, maintenance etc. without voiding the warranty.
I could easily do it myself, but I know that if I cut the control cable and installed a connector I would most certainly void the warranty.
Anyway, not the end of the world. It's just a nice convenience to have
That's my biggest complaint about the pump. I have to give it a vinegar bath in a bucket inside if I don't want to unplug everything and expose the control box to the outside. But I got used to it.
Hi guys
Skimmer has been set and ran now for 4/5days.
Its running at 30w and pipe open 4 lines.
I have video showing the skimmer so far. If you guys could watch and let me know your opinion.
Heres a link.
https://youtu.be/9MOODPzhKO0
Thanks
Skimmer has been set and ran now for 4/5days.
Its running at 30w and pipe open 4 lines.
I have video showing the skimmer so far. If you guys could watch and let me know your opinion.
Heres a link.
https://youtu.be/9MOODPzhKO0
Thanks
slief
RC Sponsor
That doesn't look bad at all. Normally I would suggest starting at about 27 watts with this skimmer but since it's a bit oversized for your setup, I'd say you are doing pretty well where you are.
Give it a few more days as it's not yet completely broken in. Once it's broken in, you could try slowing the pump down a bit in 1 watt increments. That will increase the contact time which will darken the skimmate up. It will also slow the skim production down. If you do slow the pump down, drain the collection cup so you can see the results. You will have to find a balance between darker skimmate and consistency. Should you decide to slow the pump down, give it several hours to settle in or 24 hours to see what it produces. You will likely need to close the wedge pipe a bit to maintain consistency.
Sorry Scott, I know you've mentioned this before, but can you define what the following actions/functions below do?
Pump
Increase watts/percentage = ???
Decrease watts/percentage = ???
Body (Wedge pipe)
open = ???
close = ???
Is the wedge pipe just to raise the water level of the skimmer? How would I decide between increasing/decreasing the wattage vs. opening/closing the wedge pipe?
How do I "wet skim"? (settings, etc.)
How do I "dry skim"?
slief
RC Sponsor
Pump
Increase watts/percentage = increases water and air flow into the skimmer. This decreases contact time and increases bubble size. Increasing the pump speed will also raise the water level inside the skimmer.
Decrease watts/percentage = Increases contact time by decreasing flow through the skimmer and also decreases bubble size. Decreasing the pump speed will also decrease the water level inside the skimmer.
Increased contact time coupled with decreased bubble size results in more efficient DOC removal. There is a point of deminishing return with this and every model skimmer is different however each sized skimmer has it's sweet spot range in terms of pump speed.
250 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 36 and 38 watts.
200 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 27 & 30 watts.
180 sized skimmers seem to perform best between 22 & 24 watts.
Much of that depends on the amount of DOC's. Less DOC's typically require higher water levels inside the skimmer to keep the foam head up higher in the neck in order to keep the skimmer producing consistently.
Body (Wedge pipe)
open = reduces water level inside the skimmer lowering the foam head.
close = increases water level inside the skimmer by restricting it's flow out of the skimmer and raises the foam head.
I prefer to use sump level to fine tune the water level as much as possible so that the point of where the bubbles transition to slower moving foam is at the base of neck with the wedge pipe wide open. Then do the real fine tuning with the wedge pipe so that I only have to close the wedge pipe slightly.
To wet skim, first find the best pump speed to create the most solid foam head possible. The raise the water level inside the skimmer either via the sump level or by closing the wedge pipe to lighten the skimmate color. The higher the level in the neck where bubbles transition to foam, the wetter the skim. By raising the level, you are essentially thinning the skimmate. Wetter skim results in increased skimmate production.
To dry skim, find the best pump level to get the most solid foam head and lower the level inside the skimmer to darken the skimmate. The lower the level where bubbles transition to foam in the neck, the drier/darker/thicker the skim. It really is a visual thing as far as what you see in the collection cup. These skimmers are very efficient in the speed at which they remove solids from the water. As such, the DOC's are removed, adjustments may need to be made to compensate for the reduced DOC's. That typically would mean raising the level inside the skimmer slightly s that the point that the bubbles change to foam are higher up in the neck. This adjustment typically requires a very slight adjustment to the wedge pipe by closing it ever so slightly. Drier skim results in decreased skimmate production.
The amount of DOC's in the water has a direct impact on ideal settings. The lighter the load in relation to the skimmer size, the more difficult it is to tune a skimmer dry and keep it consistent. In the absence of enough DOC's for the size skimmer, you end up with bubbles that tend to burst faster at the surface instead of generating thick foam. This is because the DOC's provide the proteins necessary to make the bubbles stick together to form consistent foam. The larger the skimmer, the larger the neck diameter and the more DOC's needed to fill that neck with foam. This is one reason why sizing one of these skimmer correctly is important. It allows you to have more control over the skimmer performance and allows it to produce consistently both wet and dry. If the skimmer is oversized or if there aren't much in the way of DOC's for the size skimmer, consistently maintaining a good foam head is difficult. This necessitates the need to wet skim in order to maintain consistency.
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slief
RC Sponsor
The Mini unlike the double cone and other models, doesn't offer the pump adjustments via the adjustable volute on the Red Dragon pump or via the pump speed control on the RD3 pump. As such, your skimmer, you are dependent on the water level inside the skimmer for fine tuning.
With the Mini on a relatively light load, I would normally start with the wedge pipe wide open and use the sump level to get the water level up to the middle to higher end of the range below. With a heavier load, I would adjust the sump level to the lower end of the range in the photo below. Then use the wedge to fine tune so you aren't having to close it so much. In a very lightly stocked tank or in the case where this skimmer is oversized for the load, your water level in the sump will typically be higher than the "optimal range" which is 7.75" to 8.50". In your case given that you are already at 9" I think it's a safe assumption that the amount of dissolved organics in your system is on the low side for that skimmer. As such, assuming your skimmer is broken in and you like the way it's perfoming, you could note where the water level (transition from water to bubbles) inside the skimmer is now. Open the wedge pipe all the way and raise the water level of the sump enough to get the transition point and 1/4" below where you have it now. Then close the wedge pipe to adjust it from there back to the bubble level you have it at now. That should only require you to close your wedge pipe around 1/4 of the way.
Keep in mind that when you open the wedge pipe up to make this adjustment, it's going to impact/disrupt the skimmers bubble output for a little while. As such, raise the sump level 1/4" at a time and give the skimmer an hour or two to settle back down before making another adjustment. You won't want to overshoot the depth in your sump only to have the skimmer overflow. My guess is that you will end up around 9.5"-9.75" given your wedge pipe is a 75% closed. Having said that, these adjustments aren't going to necessarily make that skimmer perform much better unless you are seeing surging (water going up and down in the skimmer body). As such, you could also leave it alone but I would at least raise the level a little bit in the sump so your wedge isn't so closed.
For reference, here is the range that you would normally target for the transition from water to bubbles in the mini skimmer. Heavier load would require a lower transition than a lighter load. The key for you is finding a water level that results in the most consistent skimmate production where it's not overflowing and it's still producing reasonably dark skimmate.
Thanks for the informative reply.
You are correct, skimmer runs nicely for a few days and then goes out of wack. Not very consistent. And now I am aware it has to do with the low docs.
im goin to do like you stated and see how deep it needs to be in order to run wedge open. I feel like the inconsistency has to do with the wedge being so closed if that makes sense
You are correct, skimmer runs nicely for a few days and then goes out of wack. Not very consistent. And now I am aware it has to do with the low docs.
im goin to do like you stated and see how deep it needs to be in order to run wedge open. I feel like the inconsistency has to do with the wedge being so closed if that makes sense
slief
RC Sponsor
The wedge closed that much will only impact the skimmer by causing siphoning from the drain line. It shouldn't have any real impact on consistency. The restriction will cause the level inside the skimmer to rise up until there is enough head pressure to cause the water to siphon from the drain side. This becomes pretty obvious because you will see an up and down motion inside the skimmer every several seconds or less at the bubble line. We refer to that as surging and like I said, it's usually pretty obvious.
In your case, I suspect what you are seeing is the result of the skimmer driving the dissolved organics out of the system. Once that happens, the skimmer can no longer make a good foam head so it will idle along for several days (not producing any skimmate) until the DOC's build back up. Once they build up enough, the skimmer will start producing a good foam head again and generate skimmate for a couple days or more until it reduces the DOC's. Then the cycle repeats. If you have the skimmer set too wet, it will want to inadvertently overflow. There is however a fine line where you should be able to adjust it wet enough that it will produce wet skimmate reasonably consistently. You just have to adjust the internal water level high enough in the skimmer to get it to produce consistently but low enough that it doesn't overflow if you look at it wrong. This requires very subtle fine adjustments of the wedge pipe and getting the sump level in the right ball park first will go a long way in terms of being able to take advantage of the fine adjustments the wedge pipe offers.
It's also very critical that you run an ATO to maintain a consistent sump level otherwise your skimmer will never be consistent. It will overflow if you add too much water and not produce with the slightest bit of evaporation. Same goes with water changes. Add too much new water and your skimmer may overflow. Too little water and your skimmers internal level will drop.
machodik
Active member
Bubble King Setup, Tuning and trouble shooting thread. Post your questions here!
After I change my new sump, I got to start all over again with skimmer since I have washed thoroughly the whole skimmer before putting it back on, after a week , here is the video;
https://vimeo.com/151204285
The skim mate qty collected after 5 days of running the skimmer;
I am also wondering why this silicon tubing are attached to the red pipe that is restricting me to move my pumps on a different position and also my adjustment on the water level inside the skimmer's body ?
Cheers,
MD
After I change my new sump, I got to start all over again with skimmer since I have washed thoroughly the whole skimmer before putting it back on, after a week , here is the video;
https://vimeo.com/151204285
The skim mate qty collected after 5 days of running the skimmer;
I am also wondering why this silicon tubing are attached to the red pipe that is restricting me to move my pumps on a different position and also my adjustment on the water level inside the skimmer's body ?
Cheers,
MD
slief
RC Sponsor
After I change my new sump, I got to start all over again with skimmer since I have washed thoroughly the whole skimmer before putting it back on, after a week , here is the video;
https://vimeo.com/151204285
The skim mate qty collected after 5 days of running the skimmer;
I am also wondering why this silicon tubing are attached to the red pipe that is restricting me to move my pumps on a different position and also my adjustment on the water level inside the skimmer's body ?
Cheers,
MD
Looks like that big skimmer is working pretty ok on your little tank. You could wetten it up a bit to increase it's skimmate production but you do have a light load for that skimmer and it's working pretty well from the looks of it. As for the Venturi tube, how much closed is that wedge pipe?? If it's closed too much, that won't help with the slack in that line. Take a look at this picture. Verify where the wedge pipe opening is so you know how much open or closed it is. Then disconnect the airline from the pump and rotate the wedge pipe 180* so the airline goes into the pipe on the pump side like in this picture. The you will have plenty of slack. Then readjust the wedge pipe and remember what I told you, adjust your sump level so you don't have to close the wedge pipe more than 50%.
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machodik
Active member
Hi Scott, I love this skimmer it let me feed more but I wonder if I keep doing more feeding will it lead to my po4 goes way up again?
For the Venturi tube, you mean I have to removed the red color airline pipe and then rotate the red wedge pipe 180 degree as shown in the photos ?
My wedge is wide open as of the moment .
For the Venturi tube, you mean I have to removed the red color airline pipe and then rotate the red wedge pipe 180 degree as shown in the photos ?
My wedge is wide open as of the moment .
slief
RC Sponsor
Maybe I misunderstood what you were asking about in the previous post. You had mentioned that you were wondering why the silicone tube was attached to the red pipe which is restricting you from moving your pump to a different position. Are you talking about the clear Venturi tube that goes from the pump through the wedge pipe or are you talking about the one that connects the pump to the bottom of the skimmer? If you are talking about the one that connects the pump to the bottom of the skimmer, that is by design. It's the closest spot on the simmer body to the Venturi line location that pump can be mounted to. That closeness to the wedge pipe where the Venturi line is located as it makes it way to the air silence above the wedge pipe helps reduce pressure that might restrict airflow with a Venturi longer line. If you are talking about the Venturi line, that line is just long enough for the wedge pipe to be able to be open all the way as well as closed. The longer the Venturi line, the greater the restriction of air flow. Kind of like sucking soda through a straw. The longer the straw, the harder you have to suck.
A a side not, disregard rotating the wedge pipe 180*. With the wedge pipe wide open, I don't think that will work for you. That said, I see no issue with the way your Venturi line is routed anyway so I would just leave it alone.
machodik
Active member
Bubble King Setup, Tuning and trouble shooting thread. Post your questions here!
I am referring to the silicone tube was attached to the red wedge pipe which is restricting me to rotate the wedge pipe fully.
The silicone tube that comes out on the certain point of the red wedge pipe and connect to the pump. That is the one in my questions ( not the clear tube connecting the base of the pump to the base of the skimmer.)
I am referring to the silicone tube was attached to the red wedge pipe which is restricting me to rotate the wedge pipe fully.
The silicone tube that comes out on the certain point of the red wedge pipe and connect to the pump. That is the one in my questions ( not the clear tube connecting the base of the pump to the base of the skimmer.)
slief
RC Sponsor
I am referring to the silicone tube was attached to the red wedge pipe which is restricting me to rotate the wedge pipe fully.
The silicone tube that comes out on the certain point of the red wedge pipe and connect to the pump. That is the one in my questions ( not the clear tube connecting the base of the pump to the base of the skimmer.)
Your wedge is wide open and the tube is just long enough for it to be wide open. If you need to close the wedge pipe, rotate it counter clockwise. That will add slack. You can also double check to see if you rotate the wedge pipe 180* counter clockwise as I think that will also leave the wedge fully open. I haven't looked inside the wedge pipe of the Double Cones to see how they are cut.
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biecacka
Active member
Skimmer has broken in and the skimmate slowed down a bit. Wedge pipe was about 50-60% closed. So I redid my skimmer stand and dropped the skimmer from 8 inches to about 9 inches in depth. I'll watch this over and make changes as needed. This should allow me to keep the pump at 27 which will allow for longer bubble contact in the chamber, I think.
Corey
Corey
