C. ulietensis vs. C. falcula in reef aquaria

[Gary Majchrzak]

the two species look very similar.
I've heard lots of reports of ulietensis being kept in reef aquariums successfully. What about falcula? Is falculas behavior really THAT much more destructive than ulietensis?

(Talking about doublesaddle vs. false doublesaddle Butterflyfish here.)

 

[SDguy]

Yeah, isn't there one account of ulietensis in a LRAGE reef?

Personally, I've kept that fish twice. It ate anything and everything in the tank. I'm sure tank size plays a big role here....

No experience with falcula.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

besides Delbeek and Siegel

besides Delbeek and Siegel

there's a fella here (locally) keeping ulietensis successfully with SPS...

 

[SDguy]

Edit: I should say, there were no "sps" in either tank that I kept one in.

 

[tcmfish]

Check this out:http://glassbox-design.com/2008/chaetodontids-in-the-reef-feeding-behavior-of-c-auriga-c-vagabundus/

And also don't be so quick to jump on the C. ulietensis bandwagon: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/10/aaeditorial/view?searchterm=Chaetodon Terry's fish was not a C. ulietensis!!!! In fact a C. falcula!

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

sunofagun the Butterfly in those pix is definitely a falcula.
I gotta talk to Terry. And Charles!

 

[delphinus]

Ugh, boy I wish I had read this thread six months ago. I finally scored me some ulietensis after about a year of searching ... wanted ulietensis based mostly to Terry's article (although as well as anecdotal stories here in RC for ulietensis and majano control).

In fact easily two times in the last six months have I passed on falcula because I was holding out for ulietensis !!! Hahahahahaha, .... argggghh.

Oh well, water under the bridge now. They (it's a pair of ulietensis) are very pretty, at least I enjoy looking at them. Hopefully they behave, if not, guess I'll have to be ready to deal with it.

 

[delphinus]

I totally see it though. Those fish pictured are C. falcula, no question. Man how did I miss that before !!! :thumbdown

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

it can happen to the best of us

please post here and let us know how it goes!

 

[delphinus]

Well interestingly, one positive so far is that, although only been in the tank since Saturday, I am noticing the majano's disappear (I am looking at spots where I knew they were and now all of a sudden there are no more majano's in those spots). There still are a few more though, it's not a complete slam-dunk at this point but this is the first time I've ever noticed a smaller headcount with those little pests. So ... fingers crossed here.

Aiptasia, on the other hand, are all out in full force and not fearing a thing as yet. We shall see. It would be interesting if they indeed ate majano's but not aiptasia. They are pretty tiny fish though, and some of the aiptasia's are not so tiny. I seem to recall it was a good six months before my old CBB ever developed a taste for aiptasia though (and he was small when I got him) so it could just be a thing that comes in time.

Here are some pictures:

 

[tcmfish]

Somebody likes clams! Nice tank, hope it works out and I hope you keep updating!

 

[Chooch1]

I pointed out to Terry Siegel that his butterfly was a C. falcula and he didn't believe me and got real snippy about it.

I observed numerous pairs of C. ulitensis in 11 days of diving in the wild (Solomon Islands) and I never once saw them nip at a coral. I hope they do the same for you. Keep us posted.

 

[delphinus]

Perhaps he needs this book for Christmas: http://www.tmc-publishing.com/books/book-31.htm

(Ah, nuts, now *I* want that book..)

Anyhow, thanks all. I'll definitely keep posting updates as I learn or observe anything as I go along here.

It seems to me to stand to reason that if majano's are on the menu then so would zoanthids. That's a limitation I could learn to live with. I guess anything beyond that - clams, LPS, SPS, etc. then perhaps a FOWLR of sorts would have be setup.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

It seems to me to stand to reason that if majano's are on the menu then so would zoanthids.

not necessarily.
For example- certain Chelmon rostratus are fond of Aiptasia. Other's are not. I've never seen any of my CBB's pester any zoanthids or Majano.
Depending upon species (and individual) a fish can be extremely prey specific.

 

[delphinus]

Have now definitely seen them eat majano off the rock..

 

[Mentat]

Very nice!

 

[delphinus]

So, two weeks in, I think I can share some observations that pretty much solidify the notion these are not really reef-tank suitable fish (well, depending on what reefy things one might like to keep in their tank).

So, first, the good news. Almost all majano's save for some in some tight crevasses are gone. Pretty much all aiptasia is gone. Have not noticed any distress in my clams, gorgonians, or zoanthids. Although I didn't really expect any problems with the gorgs, but I guess it bears mention that the gorgonians also do appear untouched. I also have a RBTA who seems to take no notice of these fish.

Of course, it's early yet, so who knows what could change in time.

The confirmed not-so-pretty, ie. some things do appear to be on the menu, particularly GSP and LPS. I have both Briareum and Clavularia GSP's and both have been closed for the last two weeks. Starting to notice some holes appear in the GSP matting. Also for LPS, a Lobophyllia brain is starting to look a little unhappy (closed up for longer than I think is normal - it does sometimes sulk a bit so I'll try a water change and see if it perks up), and a torch coral (Euphyllia sp.). I'm pretty sure the torch is being munched, I see evidence of recession. (Although it *might* not be the butterflies to blame. The torch was damaged to begin with: it had fallen into the back of the tank and I had left it a little too long to go fishing for it, it was in a VERY awkward spot).

So far there is another Lobophyllia who appears to be untouched, so I'm not sure what's up with that. Maybe it just hasn't been long enough.

I never see them touch the LPS, but I have a theory that it could be their feeding tentacles that come out at night that may be too tempting for the butterflies, since it does seem to be tentacle like things that capture their interest.

Sooo ... I'm not too sure at this point. I love these fish, they're very pretty, but they're very small and it makes me wonder what more damage they could do if they get bigger.

I need to set up a FOWLR tank. :lol:

 

[SDguy]

I had one with BTA's, and it LOVED to peck at them. I'd watch for that too. Perhaps if you have clowns guarding it, it will be fine though. Thanks for the update!

 

[ourmanflint]

Any chance of a full tank shot to see what they are snacking on?

 

[delphinus]

Sorry, I don't seem to have a good FTS at the moment, I've been meaning to get a new one since you asked but I keep forgetting (I've going full-bore on my basement reno now and the tanks are taking a back seat. I've *got* to get my 280g filled, it's been listed as "in progress" down in my sig for *far too long* now.)

I can at least offer this walkaround video I took about a month ago:


Since my last posting though, I've noticed the feeding patterns are different. I was wrong about them picking on the open brain (lobophyllia), it has since stopped sulking. They definitely were picking at the torch coral (euphyllia), since being removed into a different tank it has perked up immensely.

However they are still going to have to be dealt with (ie., either sold or I set up a FOWLR, haha, I can dream can't I!!). There are two things that were the "ultimate no-no" in my view: the clams and the gorgonians. Although they haven't started on the clams, they have moved in on the gorgonians. Well, some of them anyhow. It's odd that they leave some alone, but others they are picking at relentlessly now. I have not seen polyp extension on those pieces for a long time.

So, that's sort of too bad. FWIW, they pretty much eradicated the majano AND the aiptasia in the tank, but yeah, they're just too interested in other things that cost plenty good money, keeping them in a reef is not a good idea.