can algae replace a skimmer?

[spamreefnew]

hi all , i have been looking into new methods of filtration because i am just not that impressed with the "berlin" method that has been pushed upon me for years now by the lfs's. and i am sooo sick of adjusting,cleaning,and repairing protein skimmers. not to mention protein skimmers cost hundreds of $ and take up vast amounts of space in the sump. i have looked into the eco method,algea turf scrubbers and mangrove/algae systems. do any of you run a skimmerless system?

 

[jenglish]

Hopefully someone will pop on with more experience, I ran a ATS system years ago. It was not lower maintenance than a skimmer but it was a lot cheaper. Unlike a skimmer it does take a bit to get functioning well and has the disadvantage of being subject to biological and mechanical failure. There wasn't much adjusting but at least as much as my octo requires. Algae itself doesn't stink like skimmate but some say it adds an odor to the room. I had mine in a basement bedroom in college so if it stank nobody noticed. harvestin algae was a bit more of a pain than dumping a skimmer cup but not by much. It was mounted above the tank and was a static horizontal design. Some of the horizontal "waterfall" ATS may be easier to wrk with. I had it set up less than a year before I reduced my overall tanks for maintenance reasons (I had like 5 set up at the time)

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

re: can algae replace a skimmer?

sure.

that's why I run a skimmer :lolspin:

 

[jglackin]

Yes. www.inlandaquatics.com 35,000+ gallons of saltwater, lots of corals, clams, fish, and critters, and not one skimmer. Can you do it at home? Maybe, but, given limited space, you will likely find that a skimmer is the best way to go. If you have lots of space for a large enough ATS, and you feel inclined, give it a try. Speak with the folks at Inland Aquatics and they will help you with all you need.

 

[jenglish]

IIRC the dump bucket styles IA sells are not going to be much cheaper than a skimmer, and are really only practical on a pretty large setup.

 

[cindre2000]

I ran a skimmerless system for a couple of months in a 125g. However, there was a lot of macro algae growing in the system and a very low bioload (a yellow watchmen, 2 yellow tail damsels, and a tomato clown). The algae in the system (calerpula, sargasum, chaeto, halmedia, etc) really started to take off when I removed the skimmer.

However, I did not work on that system long term and do not know how it worked out.

 

[spamreefnew]

i have had my system using a dsb of 3" in md tank and a skimmer in the sump for 3+ years now,my trates have always been high(20-40) and i have never been able to keep clams or sps for more than a few days despite doing 12% water changes every week and keeping ca@400 and alk@9. the corals i do manage to keep just dont seem to grow as they should.i have tried new lighting,salt,ect.. i am at my whits end so i figure why not try a new approach?

 

[KarlBob]

I've had that kind of experience, with high nitrates and dying SPS. These days I mostly stick to soft corals and LPS, and they seem to like the conditions in my tank.

Maybe a new approach will work for you. Go for it.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

i have had my system using a dsb of 3" in md tank and a skimmer in the sump for 3+ years now,my trates have always been high(20-40) and i have never been able to keep clams or sps for more than a few days despite doing 12% water changes every week and keeping ca@400 and alk@9. the corals i do manage to keep just dont seem to grow as they should.i have tried new lighting,salt,ect.. i am at my whits end so i figure why not try a new approach?

I agree- use a different approach but please don't blame the "Berlin Method" for your problems. I personally use an augmented "Berlin method" (it works great!) but you shouldn't get caught up in terminology or methodology. The Berlin method never advocated using a DSB. Besides, a 3" deep sandbed is still considered a shallow sandbed, not a DSB.
I don't know what skimmer(s) you have experience with but many of them can be practically maintenance free if you choose that route. It sounds like you might need an easier to manage skimmer.
In the past I've starved out algae (macro and micro) with proper skimming so I'd have to say that IME/IMO skimming can be more effective than algae at removing undesirable substances from a reef aquarium... although the two methods combined (lit refugium growing and harvesting macroalgae couple with proper skimming) is most effective at exporting (removing) P and N from a system. You must also limit their input- especially if attempting to maintain SPS type corals.

JMO but I don't think those nitrates are why your clams aren't surviving. Something else is the culprit. I'd also look into PO4 levels in your system. Do you run a phosphate remover? Got enough herbivores in the system? What's the magnesium level at?

 

[gowingsgo]

I just added a ATS to my system and have found that it did reduce my nitrates down to 0. from about 5 ppm. I still use my skimmer but have found that I do not have to clean it as much, and that the skim-mate is much darker in color. I have attached a few photos of my new sump. I built my sump the way I did with 5 separate chambers. (1 intake from main tank) (2 ATS) (3 skimmer) (4 fuge with live rock and sand so if I need to I can also put stuff in my sump) (5 return to main tank) I set up the ATS not to remove nitrates but to remove algae from my display tank( and that is exactly what it is doing). I now clean my glass about every 4 days and I used to do it every day. This is not for everyone but I wanted to give it a try and have found that I am very happy with my results. BTW I over feed my fish and corals a lot so I was very happy with the nitrates dropping down to zero. I will most likely keep my skimmer on line. even if it stops skimming. I like knowing that if I get something in my tank that skimmer is there to remove it.

 

[spamreefnew]

mag is 1300, po4 i have no idea,,,but,,,,i dont have any algae in the system so...?...

 

[Cody Ray]

I have never had luck with skimmers. Normally I run macro algae in the display. Could never get skimmate to form.

 

[spamreefnew]

do you keep any sps or clams codyray? i to never get much in the way of skimmate

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

spamreefnew

spamreefnew

what kind of skimmer are you running?
what's your aquariums S.G. and how do you measure it?
do you ever feed the aquarium?

 

[spamreefnew]

i run an aqua c urchin pro with a mag 5 pump my sg is 1.025 refractometer and i used to feed phyto but cut back due to nitrates

 

[atlantisaquari]

i do wish there was something out there better than a skimmer. skimmers supposedly remove a few good things. also algae uses up a few things as well. iodide and iron and obviously other things that would need to be replenished. i hear public aquariums that use algae scrubbers actually have to dose nitrates!. anyway one product that shows promise is the ecowheel from aquaticengineers.com the idea seems very cool.

 

[atlantisaquari]

there website seems to be sucking right now. it is basically a bubble driven algae wheel. its like a cross between a protein skimmer and a algae scrubber only there is no collection cup ,just a algae wheel. also their systems are bubble driven. even drives a surge devise.

 

[spamreefnew]

wow that sounds cool!

 

[CLINTOS]

For 7 years I ran several successful refugeless/skimmerless tank with sps,softies etc and a small fishload with 10% weekly water changes everything is doing great but I will be setting this ATS up in a few month's as the only filtration this way I can feed lot's of homemade phytoplankton that will feed my pods which will feed my mandarins all the while never worrying about N/P or food being taken from skimming

S.M'S design that I will use on my 90G/25Gsump

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

interesting thread so far. Talk about vast space- my skimmer takes up a 10" x 10" footprint. I wonder how my skimmer's electrical consumption stacks up against the lighting on an ATS unit that acheives similar results. How much do supplies cost to build this ATS?

protein skimmers cost hundreds of $ and take up vast amounts of space