Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank

[JohnZena]

Hi Michael,
My name is John. I have been setting up a 75 gallon reef tank. Long story short, the tank I was using had a small crack towards the top that made me nervous. I bought a new 75 and decided to make the old one my refugium. While researching I stumbled on some articles about keeping seagrasses in my refugium. A week or so of researching, i am hooked. Now I stumble here and I have a very old blog I need to catch up on. At this point my only question is thus. Can I keep a reef tank, stock it with coral and fish and at the same time keep seagrasses and do it successfully?

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[HuskerBioProf]

Hi Michael,
My name is John. I have been setting up a 75 gallon reef tank. Long story short, the tank I was using had a small crack towards the top that made me nervous. I bought a new 75 and decided to make the old one my refugium. While researching I stumbled on some articles about keeping seagrasses in my refugium. A week or so of researching, i am hooked. Now I stumble here and I have a very old blog I need to catch up on. At this point my only question is thus. Can I keep a reef tank, stock it with coral and fish and at the same time keep seagrasses and do it successfully?

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Some have done this, but it is so uncommon that it is hard to find good documentation. However, there shouldn't be many issues, theoretically. In fact, the tank I just set up is a 150 reef with a 55 gallon refugium (partly containing sea grasses). My tank has been up for weeks, so Michael is certainly a better reference when it comes to general seagrass experience.

 

[JohnZena]

Some have done this, but it is so uncommon that it is hard to find good documentation. However, there shouldn't be many issues, theoretically. In fact, the tank I just set up is a 150 reef with a 55 gallon refugium (partly containing sea grasses). My tank has been up for weeks, so Michael is certainly a better reference when it comes to general seagrass experience.

Thank you for the response. I have taken a step back because of the fact that it is so uncommon. This leads me to believe that there is a negative effect on reef/fishtanks. My plan is a 75 dt with a 75 sump devoting 40 gallons to seagrasses. I would love to grow some in the dt if it is feasible. However, the last thing I want to do is set myself up for failure.

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[Michael Hoaster]

Welcome, JohnZena!

To answer your question, yes, you can keep a reef tank with a seagrass refugium. That is exactly what HuskerBioProf is attempting. While I've had success with seagrasses, I haven't attempted what you are proposing. But, I know it is possible. It has been done. It's a very cool idea!

The tricky part, in my opinion, is balancing the disparate needs of the two ecosystems. Trying to optimize conditions on one side without harming the other may be challenging. Keeping a successful reef or seagrass tank alone is pretty challenging already! In your favor, seagrasses may be the best choice of plants, rather than say, macro algae, because they don't require a high nutrient environment, like macros do. In nature, seagrasses are able to outcompete algae by surviving in low nutrient water that can't support algae growth. This would suggest that seagrasses would partner nicely with a reef tank. Another plus is if you run the lights cycles contra to each other (daylight in one, while dark in the other) you'll get less variation in pH levels as well as oxygen levels throughout the day.

To your second post, I understand your choosing to step back a bit. It is uncommon. There is not a lot of info out there to guide you. While in theory the two systems should benefit each other, the complications of managing two very different systems is daunting. Your idea of putting some in the sump may work well, or not. Confining the grasses to an area that will probably get less attention could be good, or bad. Sometimes Mother Nature does better without our 'help'. Planting some in the display could work well, and you're more likely to kept abreast of their progress there. I'd suggest shoal grass for either/both situations. It is a pioneering species that can really take off, if 'happy'.

Whatever you decide to do, it would be great to hear your experience. Maybe start a thread? Good luck!

 

[HuskerBioProf]

Thank you for the response. I have taken a step back because of the fact that it is so uncommon. This leads me to believe that there is a negative effect on reef/fishtanks. My plan is a 75 dt with a 75 sump devoting 40 gallons to seagrasses. I would love to grow some in the dt if it is feasible. However, the last thing I want to do is set myself up for failure.

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I see no reason for it to be detrimental. Like Michael said, I have seen quite a bit of evidence suggesting microalgae outcompete macro algae which outcompete vascular marine plants in high nutrient environments, but the opposite ranking seems to be true in the case of low nutrients. I would say: use the macro algae as a mechanism to keep nitrate/phosphates low with heavy feeding and treat the seagrass like they are SPS (but sucking nitrate/phosphate out of the substrate). This is basically what I am doing. I have the grasses because I love them, the macro algae are serving the purpose.

I agree, start a thread in the Marine Plants/Macro forum. I really enjoy seeing the progress and updates from the threads in this forum, and it is one of the higher concentrations of people who have dedicated macro algae or planted marine tanks (as sparse as that is). We can learn form each other.

 

[JohnZena]

I see no reason for it to be detrimental. Like Michael said, I have seen quite a bit of evidence suggesting microalgae outcompete macro algae which outcompete vascular marine plants in high nutrient environments, but the opposite ranking seems to be true in the case of low nutrients. I would say: use the macro algae as a mechanism to keep nitrate/phosphates low with heavy feeding and treat the seagrass like they are SPS (but sucking nitrate/phosphate out of the substrate). This is basically what I am doing. I have the grasses because I love them, the macro algae are serving the purpose.

I agree, start a thread in the Marine Plants/Macro forum. I really enjoy seeing the progress and updates from the threads in this forum, and it is one of the higher concentrations of people who have dedicated macro algae or planted marine tanks (as sparse as that is). We can learn form each other.

This is absolutely wonderful news. After deciding to build a sump out of my old tank I decided that grass would a fabulous addition. My thoughts are to use Caribbean grasses such as Shoal, Turtle, Manatee and Star. Much easier said than done. I am considering whether or not I run 2 or 3 different compartments in my refugium. If I isolate the micro from the macro I can control waterflow and in turn bene fit both systems. I would appreciate any and all input, thoughts and ideas that the 2 of you might offer. Thank you again.

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[HuskerBioProf]

This is absolutely wonderful news. After deciding to build a sump out of my old tank I decided that grass would a fabulous addition. My thoughts are to use Caribbean grasses such as Shoal, Turtle, Manatee and Star. Much easier said than done. I am considering whether or not I run 2 or 3 different compartments in my refugium. If I isolate the micro from the macro I can control waterflow and in turn bene fit both systems. I would appreciate any and all input, thoughts and ideas that the 2 of you might offer. Thank you again.

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Not to hijack your thread, Micheal, but I see no reason why you would need to separate the micro/macroalgae from the seagrass.

 

[JohnZena]

Not to hijack your thread, Micheal, but I see no reason why you would need to separate the micro/macroalgae from the seagrass.

Hijack away. Its a question I would love to have answered.

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[Michael Hoaster]

Sounds good! Trying lots of different seagrass to see what works in your setup is a good strategy. Turtle grass needs in the neighborhood of 6-8 inches of substrate. The others can work in the 2 inch range.

"I am considering whether or not I run 2 or 3 different compartments in my refugium." Do you mean one compartment for the grasses, one for macros and one for micros? If you like compartments, go for it. Either way I think.

"If I isolate the micro from the macro I can control waterflow and in turn bene fit both systems." Can you explain what you mean here?

Anyways, it sounds like you're stoked! Welcome to the basement!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I got a little tank work done today. Woohoo!

I first observed the tank, then jotted down a list of stuff I wanted to get done. Otherwise I forget. I cleaned the glass, planted some new shoal grass, pruned and exported a good pile of macros-mostly grasilaria, went on a 'nem hunt' with my syringe of ammonia, got my RO/DI working better, and readjusted my CO2 injection. I also introduced 100+ assorted pods and three serpent stars. Oh, and I got two mollies moved into the QT, where they will hopefully remember how much they love to eat cyano.

Now I'm kicking back on the couch, staring at the tank, chillaxin' and maxin'…

 

[Chasmodes]

When I read this update the first time after you posted, I skimmed over the part where you said you planted new shoal grass. Nice. I bet the blennies went nuts over those pods

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I've got five blue chromis on the way. I've never kept these, but I've kept the blue greens. I'm hoping to avoid the Darwinian Elimination Game, by not trying to keep too many. From what I've read, they need some space and if they get it, they can coexist in peace. I figure five is few enough that everyone gets some room. These fish are upper water column, plankton pickers. They should bring a nice burst of color and movement to the ecosystem. If I get lucky, they'll school for awhile. I did order smalls. Big Daddy will probably keep them nervous for a bit. Of course they'll go into QT first.

The most dangerous part, of course will be sneaking these by the wife…

 

[JohnZena]

I've got five blue chromis on the way. I've never kept these, but I've kept the blue greens. I'm hoping to avoid the Darwinian Elimination Game, by not trying to keep too many. From what I've read, they need some space and if they get it, they can coexist in peace. I figure five is few enough that everyone gets some room. These fish are upper water column, plankton pickers. They should bring a nice burst of color and movement to the ecosystem. If I get lucky, they'll school for awhile. I did order smalls. Big Daddy will probably keep them nervous for a bit. Of course they'll go into QT first.

The most dangerous part, of course will be sneaking these by the wife"¦

I am looking forward to seeing the pictures. Not of your wife catching you of course.

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[Chasmodes]

Awesome!

I am looking forward to seeing the pictures. Not of your wife catching you of course.

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Me too. I'd like to learn your technique on how to sneak them by your wife and apply it to my system accordingly :rollface:

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Welcome, JohnZena! To you and Chasmodes, here's how I pulled it off:

First, we had company, which helps to distract her, as well as prevent embarrassing meltdowns. Plus, we were expecting another, different shipment, so she mistook the fish box for RO/DI filters. By the time she figured it out, I had them in QT. She also tends to fall in love with new fish, so I had that to cushion the blow.

Now for the unfortunate news: I lost two overnight, so I'm down to three. Their reputation as delicate shippers/acclimaters is warranted I guess. They are pretty though!

 

[Chasmodes]

Cool, I'm a quick study

Sorry about the two not making it. Hopefully, the rest will thrive and make your beautiful tank even more colorful!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks Chasmodes. They are gorgeous fish. It's bizarre that they're so sensitive. They're in the damsel family! They look less stressed today, but I still haven't gotten them to eat. Maybe this is why they are less popular than the blue greens.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Since my tank isn't particularly beautiful these days, I thought it would be fun to post some old pics. Here are some of my favorites:

Six out of seven Royal Grammas visible here.

Pretty good pic of Mr Zippy, the Atlantic Blue Tang, before the gradual color change.

Here's another, with just a hint of change showing.

Full shot with caulerpa and seagrasses.

Spotted Anemone Shrimp on a Purple Condylactis Anemone.

Overwhelming color.

Reds popping.

Peak growth.

The best fish-watching day of my life, and the beginning of a bad turn for my tank. Lookdowns.

Living room environment.

 

[Chasmodes]

I love seeing the pics, even if they're reminiscing. Your living room is awesome, especially the tank stand/canopy/cabinets. I love it.

 

[HuskerBioProf]

I always enjoy seeing how tanks fit into a room. I'm sure it will be luscious and waving in no time.